From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Achim Gratz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ELPA policy Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:58:22 +0100 Organization: Linux Private Site Message-ID: <878u67ymg1.fsf@Rainer.invalid> References: <87ziyuaqhl.fsf@petton.fr> <87fv0labbf.fsf@web.de> <87y4eda0kl.fsf@petton.fr> <22074.42230.156669.584780@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <87ziyoxvdp.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83k2psnzyh.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvuorz7n.fsf@gmail.com> <8337wfon3f.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9kvyqv9.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83lha7m2pn.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447099134 22912 80.91.229.3 (9 Nov 2015 19:58:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 19:58:54 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 09 20:58:44 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvsaR-0007BD-AK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:58:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55268 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvsaL-0005Oq-Pz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 14:58:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51003) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvsaI-0005Oj-Le for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 14:58:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvsaF-0008WH-Bx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 14:58:34 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:35623) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvsaF-0008W7-4z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 14:58:31 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvsaD-00073H-KJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:58:29 +0100 Original-Received: from p54b47b6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([84.180.123.110]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:58:29 +0100 Original-Received: from Stromeko by p54b47b6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:58:29 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 46 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p54b47b6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:KjMNQ53UvQuiJkwqBXCXn7HYO0s= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:193746 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > If that's not on the table, then please tell what in your opinion _is_ > on the table. You did want to propose something practical that could > be done soon, right? Because this discussion was about what we want > to do from now on with ELPA, not what we might want considering in > some distant future that might never come. I did want to propose something that could become a vision for some time in the foreseeable, yet somewhat distant future that we can then take steps towards. ELPA is foremost for _users_ and any decisions taken should put the users first and developers second. As a user I don't have the luxury of chosing which Emacs version I get to use and what packages are already installed on the system (indeed in my day job that changes when I switch between project workspaces). Wouldn't it be splendid if ELPA helped me making those differences fade into the background, if not disappear entirely? > So please, let's be practical and consider alternatives that > realistically can be taken soon. Like tomorrow or the next month. > Okay? No, not okay. There's still no consensus of even roughly where we want to end up, so starting a random walk to find out who's feeling well or not with whichever direction is certainly not my idea of progress. > Moving out a few large packages that are developed outside Emacs > anyway is a no-brainer, provided that their developers agree. Again, it's not. It simply doesn't work at this moment, not for Emacs, not for the package developers and not for the users. That doesn't have anything to do with the size of those packages best I can tell. To change that (without moving the sources anywhere, just to not go down that rabbit hole again) we'd need to devise a way to have an Emacs core package whose autoload definitions can be separated and that can be overridden (maybe only with a newer version) on the installation level or by the user. That would be the first step before any others can follow, provided you even want to go that direction. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ DIY Stuff: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/DIY.html