From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 12:21:23 +0200 Message-ID: <878sdk602k.fsf@gnus.org> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87wo15adtj.fsf@rabkins.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2944"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, Yoni Rabkin , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 08 12:22:04 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFalI-0000em-QZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 12:22:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56172 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFalH-0007Q5-So for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 06:22:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58614) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFakm-00070a-6D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 06:21:32 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:57784) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFakk-0007zC-Ad; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 06:21:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Mr0CGjY8CCuMpubXJjMu37Za5ZrQ8PRcTVMJQu5/KdA=; b=VEkCwiFvwH3o6wF1cOIzj4KFag vYDEc/9/IKRd8BW48z9QvSIZNZAH27GxvG07w+c7GS0wVybWTXOtA5tCg2/For5ThAmXVYujsHXsW TuPvRCkZs20xYsKj4mbh/RsrFY+qWsDo1tcEgGlZQ4lwyhgG0epj/NdqozhWZxPK51qM=; Original-Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFake-00022W-RT; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 12:21:27 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEX3sTnAYxLp2KFd PBv69+D///9kZhvsAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+QJCAoAOds3tHQAAAG6SURBVDjLdZTr keQwCIQlrQMQ5wQ0DAl4nMCWlvxj2m4kax53px+uMp9pQcNMSlXjpMJnK/PtK+GoedcEkl7PeVR+ PN+y1AVIUptvIvIEQbK8g0JwHiL7GSIfIA5D+V1qnIMxOf8D8r8y9mOGSnsDQCNS9G+gEeczv4HN EdMJoodZsLk3ZkBKUk2LSJh5AdqEtgiqey50O0B8UCNJLuMDsLSKxqYp18EdIhX1D7CGgaqgv3UA +QKQXEN+gOIoP0sDOHJaI66IBzAYiJFVdVaVE5oiSGJNaOPmPspdYGt5h66qcWVWRkYJY7DlBXQk S+mN9daivXA3CKyzTf9OzFDtHPGQYiPVGajFeDnKmAAraE5cOoTzuTLQAkxP6Jxz2ifQhrUBAKn0 A8ZBqrsqF43AEz3JSJAoIoCgZ2/Q4myEAPYs4OgFzoxN3aXwtQagO20uvwwwMi4Yd8EFahV/JeP4 B1jE2gX6IsGsB4BN2q0bcWwXjLsBdNX7Qx8/N/y+PYWc+XeAO3q73c8/SsApBdi6YREghkwDcFNK HVcfnX8UATim9mxQz8fjPgF8ewJTKC4gHw3iclsg6Sv4BcIggr7UaWxqAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNy ZWF0ZQAyMDIwLTA5LTA4VDEwOjAwOjU3KzAwOjAwsYS1/AAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAy MC0wOS0wOFQxMDowMDo1NyswMDowMMDZDUAAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Sleaford Mods's _Eton Alive_: "When You Come Up to Me" In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 07 Sep 2020 22:57:34 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254714 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > Speaking of which, it would be useful to sit down with a new user just > trying Emacs and see what perse actually complains about or requests. > If several people do this, it could give us useful ideas of what changes > would actually make Emacs more appealing to new users. I don't think that's likely to result in anything very interesting, really. Looking at the runaway success of DOOM Emacs (or Spacemacs), they're distributions created by people with a specific point of view, and with a specific user interface vision in mind. That can't be achieved by a committee, and the results will be totally unsuitable for some people. But I think that's what Emacs should support: Just like emacs-devel doesn't bikeshed themes -- we just let whoever make them make them the way they like, and then distribute the result -- we should create a way to specify "layers", and then invite people to create them, without micromanaging them. And then distribute the result in vanilla Emacs, but with an easy, obvious way for users to switch these "layers" on and off. I.e., I want the enthusiasm of these people making these distributions to infect mainline Emacs. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no