From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2020 13:38:05 +0800 Message-ID: <878sdjjyrm.fsf@localhost> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87wo15adtj.fsf@rabkins.net> <87tuw8kirh.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26386"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: spacibba@aol.com, yoni@rabkins.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 07:39:54 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFspm-0006ly-6f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 07:39:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50470 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFspl-0008Ko-9A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 01:39:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58780) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFsp4-0007Vs-0m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 01:39:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x443.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::443]:39103) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFsp2-0002Ex-8l; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 01:39:09 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x443.google.com with SMTP id n14so1160888pff.6; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 22:39:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=+FnFt9ama+woWIn4343Dl4chG68gge68RmIHyO5lq6k=; b=AGuA6PZvufLj+1JdrwTObAUrVuzPiimu7nw+xo/X9qsc3G1SDobptRgkFRrERCiZDw Fr+LXIS/k0HpnY6miKC+5fsFzyKpoo5zRU7BdlSf8PIsH1CjED5yt2VbCgmZRVw+/gaS f+JFY1RcyqCqYzstfRmgVsVc5FYpeUt4JKJPuP7dI7f9wiNcJuPwIhiNwSAA0qbrKNCZ IQ8PQnKwr0JGY3zJzAlGAWPdZi3u1jg00bARytu2nErNuYDqRaFA/p4zlapPpfOy0Qcw Gy8xxRwZH/O4YdYhKd4bujenZXi5mp0Gh8y1ZlZzbFD1ri2wqxGzf/JpwQPmRwSyeEAW tZGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=+FnFt9ama+woWIn4343Dl4chG68gge68RmIHyO5lq6k=; b=hA8Dj08soPGFNocYgEGVIXfTRtf5vtRkW1dp+woy8RDGOgrG2rsWWIS0AGlobrSJk2 mf90YJlalaEGiqeQEWGZHLfJmv6PaeQ0d1CMeI7y+RyBWamqJjoLQIPem6GAkbi9oY/4 SScWs4vECZdlx2NI3QpaXLl8iQCSYPZdtWKNaKAeVKcZdbsXd9nf25jVXHYb/r1g9e6a fJ6Fsw2O9UZOlyiyknaa3ib2v/k9uPIQWYaavZsaNpgyMnTFUAEtWO2lYKAe2rLL9uad TJ5JcSCgVydW3oa3aMfUfz9QMwP8Cs1cXN9mTzQvEuVb0pLNfEfY8SjmfVGGjZDvOBrp sVNg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533zSN3TXbnZF630hThdqlx9Nb1bBJEwQLyH76umz1P7oDW9Vsbq 5Ju+dKzJUbRAE7M29J8PQTwP9efiIRPbZA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzuWDjqXRwiMK7F0G5kdswsWhXAugYk8IHPM/jYPIeCqQ+nGbULE2WeaqHH11G7RcfZZY3ynA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:fc18:: with SMTP id j24mr1720591pgi.452.1599629945662; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 22:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([104.250.131.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b20sm1265159pfb.198.2020.09.08.22.39.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 08 Sep 2020 22:39:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::443; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x443.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254847 Archived-At: > > 1. The welcome screen has too much information and new user simply > > ignores it > > What Emacs version were you using? I am on master. Strictly speaking, it is not too much information (just single page), but rather that the information does not look important. The guided tour is grouped together with warranty and redistribution - things people largely ignore. I believe that it is better to put more emphasis on the guided tour (and change the tour as I suggested in my email and later replying to the request about tramp defaults with even more details). Probably something like the following: Welcome to GNU Emacs, one component of the GNU/Linux operating system. First time using Emacs? Check out how it is different from other editors: Emacs Guided Tour (if you don't, you may be confused) Emacs Tutorial Learn basic keystroke commands Emacs Guided Tour Overview of Emacs features at gnu.org <...> > > 3. File opening dialogue is completely throwing the new user off - > > Can you say concretely what you mean by "file opening dialogue"? We > don't use the term "dialogue", and I can't see how it fits anything in > Emacs. That point can be disregarded. Emacs uses graphical dialog (see `use-file-dialog') when user tries to open file from menu or toolbar, but I did not know it because helm overrides that behaviour. I filed bug report in helm. The problem should be fixed now. Best, Ihor Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > 1. The welcome screen has too much information and new user simply > > ignores it > > What Emacs version were you using? > > > 3. File opening dialogue is completely throwing the new user off - > > Can you say concretely what you mean by "file opening dialogue"? We > don't use the term "dialogue", and I can't see how it fits anything in > Emacs. > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)