From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 17:26:10 +0300 Message-ID: <878sdft6kd.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <875z8ortot.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <32292E31-1603-4EF9-B772-EBD378C32F76@gmail.com> <83o8mcfjxb.fsf@gnu.org> <83een8fi2u.fsf@gnu.org> <87pn6stdc0.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <875z8j454w.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38824"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp , Gregory Heytings , Eli Zaretskii , casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 16:26:52 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6UN-0009x3-2v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:26:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44160 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6UM-0001is-5i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:26:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33400) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6Ts-0001JY-Ll for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:26:20 -0400 Original-Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]:26421) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6Tq-0004Z8-Jb; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:26:20 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 149.0.50.61 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [149.0.50.61]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay1-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A8ED4240002; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:26:12 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: <875z8j454w.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.193; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay1-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/12 10:26:15 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255354 Archived-At: On 2020-09-12 14:16 +03, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp writes: >> Someone who can=E2=80=99t spare more than three minutes to research a to= ol that >> they may end up using for a life time for the majority of their workday >> is IMHO not a kind of user we should strive to support. > I think that's dangerously close to saying "Emacs was hard to make, so > it should be hard to use". Well, that=E2=80=99s one way to read it. Another way, which is what I inte= nd, is that Emacs is a power tool, and some learning curve is inevitable no matter how easy we make certain things. And overcoming that requires some effort. That of course shouldn=E2=80=99t prevent documenting to the best of our abi= lity and make sure we=E2=80=99re not wasting nobody=E2=80=99s time, but that sho= uld not mean we should cater to those who are not readily willing to use this piece of software and are unwilling to put any time into learning enough to evaluating it. In a given day we probably spend more than three minutes just looking into void. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427