From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eduardo Mercovich Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 15:09:38 -0300 Message-ID: <878sd5aba5.fsf@mercovich.net> References: <875z8ortot.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <87d02haj4g.fsf@mercovich.net> <87ft7dn0um.fsf@posteo.net> <831rix3ci8.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7129"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.3.3; emacs 27.1 Cc: self@gkayaalp.com, "Philip K." , emacs-devel@gnu.org, casouri@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 19 20:41:57 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJho4-0001iH-D1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 20:41:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59802 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJho3-0004Em-47 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:41:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47098) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJhN4-0000MS-Qo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:14:02 -0400 Original-Received: from gil.mayfirst.org ([162.247.75.206]:60499) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJhN3-0006NP-68; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:14:02 -0400 Original-Received: from gil.mayfirst.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by gil.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E5D5ECB; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: xxxxx) with ESMTPSA id 6D3D35E90 In-reply-to: <831rix3ci8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Received-SPF: none client-ip=162.247.75.206; envelope-from=eduardo@mercovich.net; helo=gil.mayfirst.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/19 14:14:00 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:40:08 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256209 Archived-At: Hello Eli. [...] > The interactive guide is supposed to offer non-default options that > make Emacs UI more similar to what newcomers might expect. It wasn't > supposed to offer loading large packages such as those which you name, > certainly not packages that are not bundled with Emacs. Certainly. That's why this is a rough draft of a vision. If we agreed on the general vision it's perfectly possible to do as the 1st step (MVP in some modern parlance) only the "General editor preferences" or the "Org-mode preferences". And even there, just a few of them.=20 > But yes, deciding which options to offer and how to arrange them is > the hard part of this job. The idea proposed here is: 1. distributions first, because they define the lot for themselves. If any of them is chose, the wizard almost ends there. 2. General editor preferences (what was discussed previously in the list). While we can define defaults, giving the options with clear impact description allows the User to choose (or jump the decision and leave the default). It makes much less sense to try to define the same defaults for everyone, old wises and newbies alike.=20 3. At last very last, other non-editing emacs big applications, like mail and such.=20 I totally agree that big modules (if they ever are included) should go after general editor and/or org-mode preferences. Or, at least, should be developed/scripted (included in the wizard) not as first stage. Emacs comes first for the User benefit. b^.^d=20 Another option, is not to select and install, but just to cite a few things that we know people use, are powerful and can make a huge difference, like magit, in the end. This is proposed because many people doesn't even know they exist, and just seeing the potential the whole integrated emacs ecosystem has, gives much more impetus to make the effort to dive into Emacs.=20 Best... --=20 eduardo mercovich Donde se cruzan tus talentos=20 con las necesidades del mundo,=20 ah=C3=AD est=C3=A1 tu vocaci=C3=B3n.=20 (An=C3=B3nimo)