From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Albinus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: decision on moving core packages to ELPA; also move to obsolete? Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 09:29:16 +0100 Message-ID: <878s9y17dv.fsf@gmx.de> References: <86a6ugnopl.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83im94b17m.fsf@gnu.org> <834kknatxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83sg86apqb.fsf@gnu.org> <865z52oqfp.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83ft46akpm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6422"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, Eli Zaretskii , daniele@grinta.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 16 09:31:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpSDG-0001ay-Bc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 09:31:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57994 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpSDF-0002Gz-Dn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 03:31:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46654) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpSC1-0001YC-IK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 03:29:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:45989) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpSBu-0001x3-OO; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 03:29:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608107358; bh=0filraNz5E/8LvzFyecOY+Fd7HMml6+cwfXqKm+aSu4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=A1p6DPqvec48g3EGaw0ArzcdEKOlPvV3ckSs9a8xZKxxHFS6zFXX7Sa1kDTkP8BxN y2AQNtUsoKdZ6yu7oCIu9YCjfTw/PbFhHnNpD7sLr6CuCTc5wPt+Yunux9Xyw0wHct WRiucO0Ghm8vxBdJGx/6c9xa+bqZkSSq/lS+O7Lk= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([79.140.118.184]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M2wGi-1koMFe2VuG-003QF6; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 09:29:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 15 Dec 2020 17:09:11 -0500") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:N8QUp0HpErDRs5rX47XAukagJh3NHjY9mmheRAKjsYcXwyfwY3O X0BDXmGG7n+BKGKJn7S+jl5xOGqsKmFQ81pMlImFrz3vdP5bL/aiqh/rDy77vO4VNwCo2Dm bzITJAOvRAbw+Lnz+ws1fdk/pnmNexHnLVrKVMaNL7NAqKIuE+QxrcLb3oBukbLSEGmnI/J VfgL0K3TByBzUCUwdDglg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:rUICW7stT0E=:NVOHWOcJczYc+ZZouUUfaE YcRvl+kyvzIs0GIUjfagDEkL4RrWDyp6TrdfggQCMewrip91TZm8yQJlrSGptEoxKoDyYM6Ni IfF0ZWtaQnvjBUDMkFaUlXkRU5xMkdZR01iGyt5X8pfRIZHckFwRstH+DDPUTTXewEzN0ev5t 76DAJrXcsm5dd85eiItTZU25C2urgYTUpxnPB49KePyS4ooPJJiIDgxn6k6xQbQUDtiAICc0e OwBN6TC0874jgiIQTm14PN51fc/8HgaKBmMT/RqyajLhxdX7B6xu7JsKFAdJdpeX9IuqWkGXB MQxce7BQNWyZzGAFw17eA1+BDo04Qy2dJC7xMx4Yy9CEFMlXsXJ6OCdcpL5ufnuHnwRFPdgZ/ bI7RfOnSyw6jCOdDqIdvhBF7w3Yhm6dcWLFmTlrMGTdTYYKu33SvdJCpR/sm4zatJv9FMie3p Noij15N3v8ApiZ9D+35KIsMwG47hfMrQW7IepaXFA4hBBQ084HZ9wn25aI5MCmmrM55VX5oyP GXjB+BeeeoVG5TF11Mu3mChY1vl1xjcYbZ5jdrxnebKkpmUv0FKWDX0SfFse6x+0Pk/QtTfNn kyf6h/TaOKlJ92XAEphbqedY6MDoDMAgxUsAnZx3Qyw/NvY0QoYGX04hMbRf59bAukov/JfoC L94ZDBhRym9AX1OwqJ6GRZK3fxuFyCQTo5+Wqqd7RE8O35YoiJ6YXXz2FHBRf9MHbxetmNldL hol7OdMBPFw/E3RNwRfU9W7dgNuGDRBpf2qIdBWLc6zss7HZ66C2B0UWe/RA2AO+Zpjr6kIQ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=michael.albinus@gmx.de; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260962 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: Hi Stefan, > We could also place some or all of the bundled packages directly inside > `lisp` and have them be activated in the same way all other Emacs's code > is activated (i.e. basically by loading `loaddef.el` at dump time), so > they'll behave a bit less like normal packages and a bit more like Org > and Tramp do now (i.e. you can't "not have them"), but I think the above > suggestion is more conservative and flexible for the user (the downside > is that it's less efficient at startup). There would be a version conflict then for builtin packages, like Tramp. Usually, I freeze the code in the Emacs tree months before the real release. For Emacs 27.1, this freeze was done in December 2019 (Tramp 2.4.3.27.1); Emacs 27.1 was released in August 2020, when ELPA did offer Tramp 2.4.5 already. So you would have two different versions of Tramp bundled with the Emacs tarball. I believe, builtin packages like Tramp or Org shouldn't be bundled in the tarball as ELPA packages. People can always upgrade to the ELPA version, if needed. > Stefan Best regards, Michael.