From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why does Gnus article-moving act like a fetch of new news? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 22:27:24 -0500 Message-ID: <878s5lczqb.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <87lf9rruzl.fsf@red-bean.com> <87wnt824dq.fsf@gnus.org> <87eeffsaa6.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tuobs7xd.fsf@red-bean.com> <87a6q3s6ja.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <875z0qextc.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pmyxg81f.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Reply-To: Karl Fogel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40429"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Emacs Development To: Eric Abrahamsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 14 05:28:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lWWCR-000AQQ-VK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 05:28:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56732 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lWWCQ-0002v4-Vx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 23:28:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52580) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lWWBg-0001g0-NY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 23:27:32 -0400 Original-Received: from sanpietro.red-bean.com ([45.79.25.59]:41622) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lWWBc-0005gf-JY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 23:27:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=red-bean.com; s=202005newsp; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:Reply-To:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=kR9ta1MeT8mg05bb9ESXkh22mNwl0icbYd+WRbkgOOA=; t=1618370847; x=1619580447; b=klGNPg42n7JdftHcKb9DPh/p+kpv6yo4VBhLCn8CmzeMcvTSHJBBtJ5pKuLyPVyvUPMQB6e73Y XreomYHQcxCchjBM0ZePvEMd+V1G65eeVc5kEvlhrNthnJc1uXfmE72lMrbXGHhzjB//KMk49R+Mq Oc7ic0PYOvEpQHncbGFmG//r/IwDqkMzFBhhL35f3XKgNH+wMCuFCBfOdVEjqsDrU744FkoDuNF+x r3AlbU0a+AEs7LHeSrKJKGw2ri+3USDfJI4UpZ9cADc2LbYs3tI5kZXvFtI70cLBmepBUs8h0ydnU 4hjVeONLWvksrIr60TSXPbjCzRGd3lI73SouQ==; Original-Received: from 99-112-125-163.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net ([99.112.125.163]:47466 helo=floss) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lWWBa-0003nE-2o; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 03:27:26 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87pmyxg81f.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of "Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:59:40 -0700") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.79.25.59; envelope-from=kfogel@red-bean.com; helo=sanpietro.red-bean.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:268020 Archived-At: On 13 Apr 2021, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: >With your patch, can you confirm that it's enough (after the >article is moved) to put point on the moved-to group and run M-g? >That should mimic the current behavior, and let you find the >moved article correctly. It works as you expected: after I run M-g, the moved article is present in the destination group. And as before, the article is marked as unread in the destination group, no matter whether it was read or unread in the group it departed from. Note that `M-g' (`gnus-group-get-new-news-this-group') seems to have the same effect that just `g' (`gnus-group-get-new-news') would have: Gnus fetches mail from all the mail sources I have defined (it's configured to collect from several different servers). But I don't know what other choice Gnus would have, really. After all, it can't know what mail would be filtered into the specific group point was on when I typed `M-g'. Gnus has to fetch *all* mail and run it through `nnmail-split-methods`, which in my case points to a gigantic `nnmail-split-fancy' expression, before knowing what messages will land in what groups. >Anyway, I don't see a good solution to your problem, except for >maybe my earliest suggestion: that get-new-news not run the hooks >if DONT-SCAN is t. But now I'm not even confident that that >behavior would be correct... Well, if Gnus is going to fetch new news, then it should definitely run `gnus-get-new-news-hook'. The question is: why does it have to fetch new news? Gnus should be able to tell a group "update yourself based on all the news currently in place, including some new stuff that I just placed in you that you might not be aware of yet", without that implying contacting upstream news sources. But I don't know the code well enough to know what to invoke such that that boundary would be honored. Best regards, -Karl