From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Protesilaos Stavrou Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proportional fonts in the mode line (one month test) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 08:26:14 +0200 Message-ID: <878rxchhtl.fsf@protesilaos.com> References: <87h7c1u0cg.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6229"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Notmuch/0.34.1 (https://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 25 07:27:10 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mq8Du-0001PN-IA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 07:27:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42192 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mq8Ds-00004s-Pn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 01:27:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44052) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mq8D9-0007PP-L6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 01:26:23 -0500 Original-Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]:58081) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mq8D7-0007fU-2z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 01:26:23 -0500 Original-Received: (Authenticated sender: public@protesilaos.com) by relay1-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9AA2F240005; Thu, 25 Nov 2021 06:26:16 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87h7c1u0cg.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.193; envelope-from=info@protesilaos.com; helo=relay1-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:280068 Archived-At: On 2021-11-24, 14:53 +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > I've now switched master over to defaulting to proportional fonts in the > mode line. Customise the `mode-line' face to get the old look back. Thank you for starting this thread! Can this and every other use of 'variable-pitch' that is being discussed in recent threads be made optional? The notion that such fonts look prettier is only true with specific font combinations at particular point sizes. I have experimented with many variable-pitch font families and I seldom like how they combine with my default/fixed-pitch typeface (let's call this a "mixed fonts" case). Even the likes of DejaVu Sans and DejaVu Sans Mono are inconsistent when used together, because the former has a heavier bold weight than the latter (at least at certain point sizes). Other families like Ubuntu and Ubuntu Mono have different visual heights at certain point sizes (one looks smaller---whether the actual box of the glyph is smaller does not matter to what is seen). The general constraint with mixed fonts is that the heights and overall design character of the two typefaces seldom coincide. So in this scenario the mode-line will be a bit taller/shorter than a regular line in the buffer and/or it will feel out of place if the design of the glyphs is different. My point is on the visual aspects of how things look, as I consider consistency a matter of aesthetics (things look prettier to me when they have no inconsistencies). > I've made the most obvious things that change size -- the U:-- thing, > the top/bot, and the line/col thing -- use the `min-width' spec, so > things should jump around (for those that care about that). > > There's probably more things that should be handled that way, but we'll > take that as we go along. > > This is just a test: If everybody hates this default, we won't proceed, > but we won't know unless we test it. So we're now testing this on the > trunk for a month. Vote in a month. My opinion is that every use of variable-pitch for the mode-line, header-line, headings, Help buffers, Info breadcrumbs, etc. should be optional. Whether opt-in or opt-out is not a major issue. -- Protesilaos Stavrou https://protesilaos.com