From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PGTK-related misconceptions Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 12:18:07 +1000 Message-ID: <878rs1by4p.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87lew7qdtj.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgkjvujl.fsf@athena.silentflame.com> <87czhfkldw.fsf@yahoo.com> <87sfqbvtcw.fsf@athena.silentflame.com> <87tuarj5lv.fsf@yahoo.com> <094f1b7a-9a50-07d4-8b7f-9ba65286b49c@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36908"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.12; emacs 28.1.50 Cc: Po Lu , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Sean Whitton To: Jim Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 19 04:34:42 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ngdhR-0009Tl-JK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 04:34:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48190 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngdhQ-0003a4-CL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:34:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59472) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngdgN-0002oF-SZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:33:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b]:45877) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngdgM-0000tk-Am for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 22:33:35 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id k29so22286799pgm.12 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 19:33:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=DPiHEdUuIGSjVr6UrKIXbXOK2ICf1F7Lw9LKaVBMGN4=; b=anXP3jBzHurxnEfArbd9Qg8COH8JlXtf07JtAjUJft6o5PvuWvwSah1hZS94YERjIJ cznRCavS2kLgZqrdKylCw/gPfSoyoboUkY5Y9QRm0e3IYxuysdnhmTSItDASXJvvVJzq ftPEGZJbfQVhXksnNyo8sjhtUsM1EscFSXjVofPTSKoOcDbSFYE1oh6AY6IOkrZmOh62 5WhbtxprM7O22rHJMwipgzOd1fI02LF3qMCbG5sPNHIYmsfrpvDa1lqvpdztKGkG0CkO hf7wxwH1RCKTQKyg4m9R/bfZ4vnrHrPQbFlC63BvY1fKVnIw1jK0YrDJzO8q7/LaZD3n gaTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=DPiHEdUuIGSjVr6UrKIXbXOK2ICf1F7Lw9LKaVBMGN4=; b=QEW+kwr1+fE06c0ZVDUfT3kyFXXGc17H9fYKm7xXGtPx8jcPY6Fo38mRl+fNZK5npq DtTm7uv3Hzb3KbogIiHsWSrG99526GQcuwbDwmRM5KC67uOAdqR00HUXMm7R3EXhQfis eyrmWGerbYiBtshGkRbtjgtU3CoLTkqJMS1Gr7QqMi08FRsnqPd352xbedaE4CfyhWVV GWB7EDJrhLk54rHvzzrA1A++VoHRm3HGRkl5TjA7DS+cXJP1o05yiwto/NtWAHTyXLOX bejENeIMn0nbgE4Lagx8wCF13UUES4rZVPBUx//lSaMrb+91Gk+Rb+Rm2vUelcL54H2G X9FQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530VoQaGRMiqfSD7vkT+p91mOm4lKafoW3omppTCq0mlM1TAzj5d yG4MsPfjfeuE8nvxPf7GG5qcq6mn4P4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzKz+xZc3vxXUX2bQ6gBtea+E/vtL3xOdXUCXT9wY/wGWNghzpBFkqmM/5HG2zNW33RkD+7bw== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9110:0:b0:4fa:e388:af57 with SMTP id 16-20020aa79110000000b004fae388af57mr15300921pfh.1.1650335612227; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 19:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from dingbat (220-235-29-41.dyn.iinet.net.au. [220.235.29.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l5-20020a63f305000000b0039daaa10a1fsm14050534pgh.65.2022.04.18.19.33.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 18 Apr 2022 19:33:31 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <094f1b7a-9a50-07d4-8b7f-9ba65286b49c@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:288638 Archived-At: Jim Porter writes: > > I think it would be best to state explicitly that there are problems with the > PGTK build, though INSTALL probably doesn't need to go into any more detail than > that. In practice, a lot of people will probably just skim the documentation, so > they might miss some of the more subtle points unless they're very clearly > called out. I agree. I think this is the main point being missed by others who have argued the existing documentation is clear enough. Like it or not, people often don't read the documentation or NEWS file carefully. There is also a tendency for people to believe any new feature is an improvement and I suspect many people will think a pure GTK build is going to be better than a hybrid X/GTK one. We should just add a very explicit and clear warning not to use --with-pgtk if your running under X and put this statement right at the beginning of the section in the NEWS file about this new option. It might even be worthwhile adding a warning in configure as well (like the one we have about pop support). Like others, I expect many distributions are going to bundle emacs-gtk believing it is an improvement. I suspect it is going to be a bigger issue given that some popular distributions, like fedora, will be shipping with wayland as their default but there will likely be many who will choose to switch back to X, but then be faced with an Emacs built with pgtk to better support the default wayland setup.