From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suppressing native compilation (short and long term) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2022 11:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <878rlwahrg.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> References: <87bkqxf1ij.fsf@tethera.net> <8335c9dkyf.fsf@gnu.org> <83tu4odez7.fsf@gnu.org> <871qrrpkgx.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <834jwnbi6c.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtafnun5.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <83sfk6ahty.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8p1aiof.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <835yh0zxqd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4360"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: rlb@defaultvalue.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, david@tethera.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 03 20:28:24 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ofQAv-0000uE-Li for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 346E37EE403; Mon, 3 Oct 2022 11:23:15 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <835yh0zxqd.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 03 Oct 2022 19:19:06 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.26; envelope-from=spwhitton@spwhitton.name; helo=out2-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296780 Archived-At: Hello, On Mon 03 Oct 2022 at 07:19PM +03, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Sean Whitton >> Cc: Rob Browning , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, >> david@tethera.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org >> Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2022 16:51:12 -0700 >> >> The point with battery consumption is not about running vs. standby. >> The issue is that while users expect that running apt-get will drain the >> battery, they expect that once apt-get is done, the only battery-hungry >> processes are ones they start themselves. > > How does this work in practice? I mean, what exactly do you mean by > "processes they start themselves"? You mean, you know by heart each > Emacs command that invokes a subprocess, and avoid to invoke them all > unless the laptop is plugged in? I don't believe this is practical, > because even "C-x C-f" invokes a a subprocess when you visit a file > under VCS (which I guess happens a lot to the likes of you and me). > And how can a person avoid all of those commands? What am I missing? Native compilation is significantly more CPU intensive than any of these other things, though. > Did you actually try to see that "churning away" in practice, did you > look at the time this typically takes, the resources (battery and > otherwise) it consumes, etc.? If so, can you share the data: how many > *.eln files were produced in how many minutes, how much battery did > that consume? > > You see, I have my data, and it seems to indicate a very short period > of initial compilations for a modest consumption of resources. (This > isn't a laptop, but I'm acutely aware of my system's load at all > times, and have it on the mode line, so I know what kind of > computation is going on during that time.) The data I see here > doesn't look like it should be a problem for anyone, as long as files > are compiled only as they are used. In my case, for example, I see > maybe half a dozen *.eln files compiled after the initial startup. I > expect to see that on any machine where a user has steady usage > patterns -- the compilation flats out very quickly. I cannot imagine > how will your CPU churn out for any significant time after an upgrade. > A typical compilation of a single .el file is usually very fast, > exceptions are extremely rare. And I barely notice the effect of that > on system responsiveness. > > So I could imagine that many people perhaps base these judgments on > something they didn't actually try, but just imagined to themselves, > and imagined incorrectly, or based their opinions on some other > compilations of different languages in different environments. > > I urge people to actually try this and see what it does, before making > up your minds. I have actually tried it, for more than a year now, but admittedly I do not have hard data. Thank you for sharing yours. -- Sean Whitton