From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Suhail Singh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Improve access to documentation in Info format Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2025 16:04:31 -0500 Message-ID: <878qruqm8w.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ser8c230.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86ser87rut.fsf@gnu.org> <871pygyjqt.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87zfl2mhoz.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11770"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Suhail Singh , bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 02 06:52:45 2025 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tTE8T-0002ze-F2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 06:52:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTE7q-0000Me-0h; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 00:52:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tT5tg-0005z1-UD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 16:04:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qt1-x844.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::844]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tT5tb-0006rO-HF; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 16:04:52 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qt1-x844.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-467918c360aso126541071cf.0; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 13:04:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1735765483; x=1736370283; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OvzxpsH4FC8rg4q1fwwkRfOmpjsXLeCJMvss6mKNR8c=; b=WsQS8bvEkK0W0vzgMSpr22OE0GznInDoOTGvozogCQeuHgSRgNhqrKORGIpe7zLcqL fQjHayfjpeJchn6Jg+iedg+2i4ox4neP4CeaoWnWHTS1/8VSCGKOG7/GTIIZ4NTe/305 iTggfabAMEzMVbQ3352OsdJd/qThCqFfpnY1PpMatEWmucX9m0DrR/Elxqfxe+JTPKvI v57hqK2K5NdW09GJrOMkJJGCj6GxXoBlhuFBefjK1vORzTEFWd5sCien42m8t97+ipoN 5cJ2J5JDG3ltB8w+oaX62U5+MCT6ykpnui4QdnGy5IklxBIQ4V4G47wMDxLhcI2DrjyH 94qg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1735765483; x=1736370283; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=OvzxpsH4FC8rg4q1fwwkRfOmpjsXLeCJMvss6mKNR8c=; b=QmKGEz6fz5HEbJZJGzdc0jE68UGyhWZHgUWhCl6mDqlbJ1lSs9icfQOOLdXgsg9BAG bKs+0AcIPUHO+K/ZFe8uwJ7oNIrMprMsszt2103JI+//OvzFW1HBylV3IEjjaBjXDRoD q9IocIBOZxh646uLQ0U8TW18o/26aekOqk4yDb2PAJezDC2lE/nzFkb28jSGCqG0nXDp fipsbGk/SZ9oifwGzYutd7dSpU5rx/YzGeS5XKuQNzia25SEaQJ3W+wquwunYhDZOOc0 ylIVAc+8s1YymUxc+jMAn4Od+vO/C8SIxLcN7nsx4CnmXKUVhF83/iy40cf+iziLaNb0 iBMw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUZNYnLH3e9iUEqsyOt3XI7dOBOEK+ixllUKwIisRBWYk4gfC/T1ptdhafhq7AWqXdlgHEbc6PZZfLXWA==@gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx/KITHMJa8bHeFXZnU05NCtvGXkF7e879JGcwT2swOF/jImYvw AHqaZtnuXeomYiJml8XhopqytxtjQpf2eo2/jPZt1L3jcpQ1xrD9mrBWUuFm X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvMICICw3aNCsR0/YsGmGd88HH+DrHFxsSh1yb0KoHO2gox5Be1g/+VGiUrouy 9I7ieoowQlABPmOWs3AR2dU7sesXXFi+vByBcxCAvgWt/5/DhxRZOoyER4ncq3SHQECMVnzS8rx Qtm7Y6/qkic9FIm6Ny8CP5vb09H8rI16bWQ5dwmU6pGqwi95igAQCstzN6T5zs39v1KjYNpPWW+ Nix5shdXz1I0esOoHPatY4iZBDQlXIPrSvbMkeVfxPXZg/eHnZx X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFBkx9ixQux5h8O62OV33y8SwwWScHPJ6SUs9YDn51+Pa7ADZblY36Dh+ScM16UjZNA6r6DAw== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:59c4:0:b0:467:6b59:423 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46a4a9a4378mr835116101cf.55.1735765482749; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 13:04:42 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from gnus ([70.26.179.129]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-46a3e6813eesm128333621cf.35.2025.01.01.13.04.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 01 Jan 2025 13:04:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 31 Dec 2024 23:08:44 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::844; envelope-from=suhailsingh247@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x844.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 02 Jan 2025 00:52:03 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:327560 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > Could you comment on the user-facing features that would no longer work > > with such "visibly wrong" translated-from-other-formats Info manuals? > > "Natural" markup notations that try to resemble ordinary punctuation > have trouble making these distinctions. They are based on WYGIWYW, > What You Get Is What You Write. So if several markup constructs get > you the same thing in one output format, you have to write them the > same way in the source, so they all get you the same thing in each > output format. To paraphrase, the user-facing features that would no longer work with such "visibly wrong" translated-from-other-formats Info manuals is the ability to generate output that looks similar in one output format while looking different in other output formats. > I am not saying it is _impossible_ to extend any of those markup > systems to make these distinctions. Quite the contrary, I hope > someone will invent a way, and implement it. Then, with luck, we > could perhaps adopt that markup system for source code for our > manuals. > > But this would involve making the markup system less "natural". > > Untll someone invents that, we can't use a natural markup notation > to replace Texinfo format. Agreed, natural markup may not be a substitute for Texinfo. And yet, there may still be utility in providing _best effort_ but "visibly wrong" Info manuals for packages that use other documentation generation systems (for instance, Sphinx). The value for me, as a user, would be to be able to use Emacs's excellent Info viewing capabilities for such packages. -- Suhail