From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chong Yidong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Reset buttons in Customize (Was: Bug, probably related to Custom Themes.) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:58:21 -0500 Message-ID: <877j9fg9j6.fsf_-_@stupidchicken.com> References: <200512210254.jBL2sj814876@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <87d5jqrvuo.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200512212219.jBLMJ3R29494@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <87lkydx021.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200512220351.jBM3pvX02615@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <8764phpyvf.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200512230029.jBN0TgT16314@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <1135392570.183714.29626.nullmailer@Update.UU.SE> <200512250324.jBP3OdM16529@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200601022026.k02KQQh21528@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1136400833 12347 80.91.229.2 (4 Jan 2006 18:53:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:53:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ams@gnu.org, Luc Teirlinck , rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 04 19:53:50 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EuDlE-0005Cy-Tq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:53:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EuDmv-0005vM-4x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:55:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EuCvu-0002od-Gz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:00:23 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EuCvr-0002mG-3x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:00:19 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EuCvp-0002lV-6F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:00:17 -0500 Original-Received: from [18.95.6.18] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EuCx8-0001B5-AN; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:01:38 -0500 Original-Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A68351E4269; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:58:21 -0500 (EST) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard M. Stallman's message of "Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:25:55 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:48698 Archived-At: I did a little more thinking about the Customize interface. The question of which button does what is rather poorly thought out. As evidence of this, the "Reset to Saved" buttons apparently managed to confuse both Richard and myself. Richard put in the y-or-n-p message "Update buffer text to show all saved settings?". The mistake is that "Reset to current" also sets the *current* values of the customize items to their *saved* values, even if they are different. But this is an easy mistake to make, because it's not clear that "Reset to Saved" would have this effect -- unless you try it out. I've fixed that message, but I think it is better to root out the confusion. I suggest changing custom-reset-current and custom-reset-saved to *really* become "Show Current Value" and "Show Saved Value" (and custom-reset-standard to "Show Standard Value"). That is, the buttons only change the values shown in the widgets, without setting them. The user explicitly calls "Set for Current Session" or "Save for Future Sessions" to do what he wants, which reduces the risk of confusion. However, an even better simplification is what I previously suggested: do away with the concept of "set for current session", and make Customize save automatically. This eliminates the above confusion entirely, because the current value is always the saved value, as long as you stick to Customize. (And even external changes would be easy to handle.) To see how non-standard the "set for current session" concept is, run Firefox go to Edit->Preferences. Do you see any "set for current session only" button? There isn't one -- nor in the Gnome control center, or the preferences of every other program around. Customize is supposed to be something that ordinary users can use.