From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeremy Maitin-Shepard Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: MAINTAINERS file Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:41:24 -0500 Message-ID: <877igipc17.fsf@jbms.ath.cx> References: <18375.18663.981150.252393@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> <87od9wt19m.fsf@elegiac.orebokech.com> <87tzjnvjhc.fsf@red-bean.com> <87zlte3848.fsf@ambire.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1204656271 6738 80.91.229.12 (4 Mar 2008 18:44:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 18:44:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juanma Barranquero , rms@gnu.org, Emacs Devel To: Thien-Thi Nguyen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 04 19:44:57 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JWc81-0002Ox-MI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:44:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JWc7U-0007mS-Ia for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:44:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JWc55-0005sd-3N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:41:39 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JWc52-0005ra-6e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:41:38 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JWc51-0005rU-S9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:41:36 -0500 Original-Received: from deleuze.hcoop.net ([69.90.123.67]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JWc4x-0006BC-6c; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:41:31 -0500 Original-Received: from jbms.wv.cc.cmu.edu ([128.237.247.38] helo=localhost) by deleuze.hcoop.net with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JWc4r-0001H9-KB; Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:41:25 -0500 X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:91307 Archived-At: Thien-Thi Nguyen writes: > () "Juanma Barranquero" > () Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:56:47 +0100 > Yes, I can easily imagine the faces of any vi-loving Bazaar > developer if we asked them to drop it and use Emacs... > Hey, i love vi (the same way i love sunsets: from afar, w/ a nice > cool beer on a hot day, hacking on Emacs in Emacs, head toasted > gently by the trees tickling the brain :-) ... > But, i don't use bzr. I hope that 1/ the git<->bzr gateway grows > fully-functional quickly; 2/ someone starts a GPLv3+ (able to be > subsequently adopted by GNU) project that reads/writes git repo > format. "Reads/writes git repo format" essentially means a compatible reimplementation of git. Reimplementing git solely to be able to license it under GPLv3 instead of GPLv2 is one of the biggest wastes of time I've ever heard of. More seriously, I think the goal of the GNU project should be to promote free software. Showing "loyalty" to another GNU project by using it in favor of an alternative that is equally free and may be technically superior does nothing to promote free software. (In fact, to the extent that using an inferior tool may interfere with Emacs development, the Emacs project, and consequently free software as a whole, is harmed.) Favoring projects that have the "GNU" label suggests a real motivation of merely promoting the "GNU" name. You may argue that promoting the "GNU" name is important for promoting free software, but I don't buy that. When it was first founded, the FSF may have been the only "producer" of free software, but that is obviously no longer true, and this fact reflects the now widespread adoption and popularity of free software. Sure, you may be sour that the name "Linux" is far more widely known and used than the name "GNU", and it is legitimate to be slightly upset that "Linus Torvalds" may be a name slightly more widely known than "Richard Stallman" (though I'm not even sure how true that is), but given that most of the people that use the name "Linux" to refer to what is actually a system running the Linux kernel (probably compiled using GCC) plus the usual glibc, coreutils, findutils, etc., X11, other stuff have no idea what "Linux" technically actually means (and certainly are just confused by names like BSD or Hurd), you cannot expect that merely having more people blindly use the name "GNU" will actually increase their understanding of the idea of free software. Instead, it is more useful to actually promote the idea of free software directly. I think the most significant barrier to greater appreciation for the idea of free software is the fact that it is very hard for non-programmers to understand or appreciate the idea of free software, and the vast majority of computer users are non-programmers. > Hey look, we already have sha1.el (though its Commentary > sez: "Rewrite from scratch", hmm). > thi -- Jeremy Maitin-Shepard