From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: utf-16le vs utf-16-le Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:30:41 +0300 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <877iez3s7i.fsf@jurta.org> References: <20080414070214.GA3956@www.trapp.net> <20080415073824.GA8466@www.trapp.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208299950 16006 80.91.229.12 (15 Apr 2008 22:52:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:52:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 16 00:52:59 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jlu1E-0002eL-LT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:52:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jlu0J-00058T-Bi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:51:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JltxR-0003ra-Kj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:48:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JltxP-0003p5-Os for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:48:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JltxP-0003op-8i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:48:55 -0400 Original-Received: from relay03.kiev.sovam.com ([62.64.120.201]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JltxH-0005P5-JF; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:48:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [83.170.232.243] (helo=smtp.svitonline.com) by relay03.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JltxB-000NIX-9G; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:48:41 +0300 In-Reply-To: <20080415073824.GA8466@www.trapp.net> (tomas@tuxteam.de's message of "Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:38:24 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Scanner-Signature: 8abf2c83e696415c40c55866f9369f42 X-DrWeb-checked: yes X-SpamTest-Envelope-From: juri@jurta.org X-SpamTest-Group-ID: 00000000 X-SpamTest-Header: Not Detected X-SpamTest-Info: Profiles 2635 [Apr 15 2008] X-SpamTest-Info: helo_type=3 X-SpamTest-Info: {HEADERS: header Content-Type found without required header Content-Transfer-Encoding} X-SpamTest-Method: none X-SpamTest-Rate: 10 X-SpamTest-Status: Not detected X-SpamTest-Status-Extended: not_detected X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0255], KAS30/Release X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 6.x (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95318 Archived-At: > Absolutely. I do agree on all this -- it was the stark contrast of not > using BOM sometimes in utf-16 to using BOM in UTF-8 what caused ummm... > some emotions ;-) > >> A BOM in UTF-8 is another matter, of course... > > Both things taken together make the work of art. I have nothing to say about why Windows adds BOM to UTF-8 files, but Emacs once saved me much time of debugging the problem when mobile terminals failed to display files stored by the users of Windows Notepad that adds BOM to UTF-8 files. In earlier versions of Emacs (I don't remember in which exactly), Emacs displayed the BOM character at the beginning of the buffer, so it was easy to see where the problem was. Unfortunately, now in Emacs 23 I see no BOM marks displayed at the beginning of the buffer. I think Emacs should have a visual indication for such hidden characters. -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/