From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gilaras Drakeson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:19:30 -0400 Message-ID: <877ibb953h.fsf@comm.utoronto.ca> References: <200807231817.m6NIHnp31261@f7.net> <4887920D.1070100@emf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216880405 29640 80.91.229.12 (24 Jul 2008 06:20:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:20:05 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 24 08:20:54 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLuC6-0006WF-Fh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:20:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49491 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLuBC-0008UZ-BU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:19:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLuB6-0008Tu-QE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:19:52 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KLuB4-0008Sb-Hv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:19:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46125 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLuB4-0008SX-9A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:19:50 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:41034 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KLuB4-0001cE-Gm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:19:50 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1KLuAv-0007T8-BC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:19:41 +0000 Original-Received: from bas3-toronto02-1279400782.dsl.bell.ca ([76.66.27.78]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:19:41 +0000 Original-Received: from gilaras by bas3-toronto02-1279400782.dsl.bell.ca with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2008 06:19:41 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 49 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: bas3-toronto02-1279400782.dsl.bell.ca User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:dmHRz9RSlRWdLVhJBURrygmJfDc= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101371 Archived-At: Hi, >> I've set up a new list, emacs-build@gnu.org, and subscribed these >> addresses (you should have received welcome msgs): > I don't mind using that address although I understand the > topic to be larger in scope than just emacs. [Since I am not sure if the name of that list will change, I post my comment here. I apologize if this is not the right mailing-list.] I really hope to see a portable build system in a reasonable lisp. To me, "the complexity of configure scripts" reads as "the accumulated outcome of a not so great language for the job"[*]. I hope the emergence of ad hoc build systems around various scripting languages and also ones using XML will inspire people to pick a (or rather, the) proper language for a build system of the future. A POSIX compatibility layer [**] and a large library of build/packaging related functions/macros will make a good head start. One ought to take a look at dh_* scripts in Debian [***] for packaging related utilities, which is an aspect sometimes overlooked in build systems. I shouldn't be saying this, since you all know way better than me, that the build system is a vital component in the software distribution (and it is even more crucial for free software). Yet it is in the sad state that we have today. The `bootstrapping' problem for a new build system won't be solved unless there is a concerted effort to push such a new system until it becomes a [de facto] standard. Such day-dreaming can really happen sometime in the future, if at least some of us are convinced that it is something important to have. [*]: I am not saying that at the time the choice of the language was made it was a mistake. I am arguing that lisp will make a much better choice for a future system. [**]: A Windows compatibility layer is also important to have. [***]: Those scripts come with the package `debhelper' -- Gilaras Drakeson