From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Differences between mail-mode and message-mode (was: message-mode is now default?) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:35:18 +0900 Message-ID: <877hy1gog9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <878wimdbzp.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87tz1av8ik.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <83vdlqp0rt.fsf@gnu.org> <874ot8zyqb.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248248326 20658 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2009 07:38:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:38:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Reiner Steib Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 22 09:38:38 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MTWPM-0006Cw-Gv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:38:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55725 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTWPL-00068W-Ep for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:38:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTWPG-000686-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:38:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTWPC-00066X-BE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:38:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34977 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTWPB-00066O-Tv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:38:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:12959) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MTWP7-00063c-Hw; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:38:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MTWP6-0006te-48; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:38:20 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37CE91535A8; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:38:17 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E67ED11FB18; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:35:18 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <874ot8zyqb.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" 5bbff3553494 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-Detected-Operating-System: by mx20.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112991 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:68799 Archived-At: Reiner Steib writes: > Obviously the key bindings cannot be resolved without a change for > either mail-mode or message-mode users. Maybe set the bindings > depending on some compatibility variable? How about the presence of Newsgroups? > > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-f moves to FCC; in message-mode C-c C-f C-f > > moves to Followup-To, and C-c C-f C-w moves to FCC. Followup-To is rarely useful in a mail message. > > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-a moves to Mail-Reply-To; in message-mode > > C-c C-f C-a runs the command > > `message-generate-unsubscribed-mail-followup-to' and there doesn't > > seem to be a command to move to Mail-Reply-To. There is no Mail-Reply-To header in the mail standards AFAIK. > > . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-l moves to Mail-Followup-To; in message-mode > > C-c C-f C-m moves to Mail-Followup-To and C-c C-f C-l is undefined There is no Mail-Followup-To header in the mail standards AFAIK, although there is a plausible argument that it is useful for mailing lists. > > . In mail-mode C-c C-t moves to message text; in message-mode this is > > on C-c C-b, while C-c C-t runs `message-insert-to'. > > > > . In mail-mode C-c C-v runs `mail-sent-via'; in message-mode it runs > > `message-delete-not-region'. > > What is "Sent-Via" about? Neither Google nor grepping through the > RFCs gave me any useful result. [1] > > > . mail-mode runs `text-mode-hook' and `mail-mode-hook'; message-mode > > says it runs `message-mode-hook' "in addition to any hooks its > > parent mode `text-mode' might have run" -- it isn't clear to me if > > these two are compatible wrt what text-mode does. > > This text is from `derived-mode-make-docstring'. message-mode is > derived from text-mode. > > > . message-mode overrides the following global key bindings: > > > > - C-a runs `message-beginning-of-line' > > This is somewhat similar to C-a in the minibuffer. If you want to > move beyond the mail header (e.g. "Subject: "), just press C-a again. > > > - TAB runs `message-tab' > > `message-tab' expand partially typed headers, > cf. `message-completion-alist'. > > > - M-; runs `comment-region' > > AFAICS, in mail-mode, `M-;' runs `comment-dwim', which first asks for > a comment syntax since none is defined. > > > . message-mode's default value of `message-generate-new-buffers' > > seems to generate buffer names in a way that is different from what > > mail-mode does. > > AFAICS, if I do `M-x message-mail RET', I get also get a "*mail*" > buffer. > > > . message-mode's default value of `message-fill-column' overrides the > > global value of `fill-column'. > > I used the recommendation from the relevant RFCs or GNKSA docs, IIRC. > Unlike `fill-column' which affects the user (and his co-workers, ...), > the fill column in mails (and news) should try to make sense for the > recipients. > > > . mail-mode uses `mail-setup-hook'; message-mode uses > > `message-setup-hook'. > > On Sat, Jul 18 2009, Miles Bader wrote: > | One issue, of course is hook names; would it work to simply have > | message-mode use the mail-mode hooks directly, and use variable-aliasing > | to accommodate people that use the message-foo-hook names? > > Miles, is `defvaralias' what you have in mind? > > @@ -905,12 +923,13 @@ > (defcustom message-setup-hook nil > "Normal hook, run each time a new outgoing message is initialized. > The function `message-setup' runs this hook." > [...] > +(defvaralias 'mail-setup-hook 'message-setup-hook) > [...] > > > . mail-mode uses `mail-yank-hooks'; message-mode doesn't appear to > > have such a facility. > > ,---- > | ;; FIXME make it really obsolete. > | (defvar mail-yank-hooks nil > | "Obsolete hook for modifying a citation just inserted in the mail buffer. > | Each hook function can find the citation between (point) and (mark t). > | And each hook function should leave point and mark around the citation > | text as modified. > | > | This is a normal hook, misnamed for historical reasons. > | It is semi-obsolete and mail agents should no longer use it.") > `---- > > Should we care about it if is obsolete? > > > . message-mode's default value of `message-citation-line-format' > > seems to produce different results compared to what `r' in Rmail > > produces. > > AFAICS, `r' doesn't cite at all and produce not citation line (neither > does `C-c C-y' (`mail-yank-original'). > > > . message-mode's default values of `message-yank-cited-prefix' and > > `message-yank-empty-prefix' are different from the results produced > > by the default value of `mail-yank-prefix', and the names of the > > options are also different. > > You mean the indentation? I think message mode's default are much > better. > > > . message-mode's default value of `message-signature' is different > > from mail-mode's `mail-signature', > > I think using ~/.signature by default is reasonable. > > > and the names of the options are different. > > See above -> Alias? > > > . mail-mode uses `mail-signature-file'; message-mode uses > > `message-signature-file'. > > See above -> Alias? > > > . mail-mode uses `mail-default-directory' for auto-saving mail > > buffers; message-mode uses `message-auto-save-directory', > > See above -> Alias? > > > and the default values are also different. > > message-mode tries to write all it's files under ~/Mail . Many users > like to sync their mail stuff between different computers. > message-mode's default makes this easier. > > > . mail-mode uses `mail-mode-syntax-table'; message-mode uses > > `message-mode-syntax-table. The default values are also > > different. > > I don't know why message mode additionally contains `>' and `<'. > message-mode also copies `text-mode-syntax-table'. > > > . mail-mode uses `mail-send-hook'; message-mode uses > > `message-send-mail-hook' and `message-send-hook'. > > See above -> Alias? > > > . mail-mode's `mail-bury' tries to show the Rmail buffer if > > `mail-bury-selects-summary' is non-nil. message-mode's > > `message-bury' doesn't seem to have a comparable feature. (This is > > important when reading mail on a text terminal.) > > Probably we should call code like `mail-bury' to `message-bury' if > `rmail-summary-buffer' is non-nil. > > > . message-mode doesn't seem to have an equivalent of `mail-use-dsn'. > > We could add the `mail-use-dsn' code to `message-send-mail-with-sendmail'. > > Bye, Reiner. > > [1] http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B"Sent-Via"+mail+header+rfc > > $ dpkg -l 'doc-rfc-*' > [...] > ii doc-rfc-0001-0999 20030621-1 Other RFCs > ii doc-rfc-1000-1999 20030621-1 Other RFCs > ii doc-rfc-2000-2999 20030621-1 Other RFCs > ii doc-rfc-3000-3999 20030621-1 Other RFCs > ii doc-rfc-experimental 20030621-1 Experimental RFCs > ii doc-rfc-fyi-bcp 20030621-1 FYI and BCP RFCs > ii doc-rfc-misc 20030621-1 Miscellaneous RFCs > ii doc-rfc-old-std 20030621-1 Old Standard RFCs > ii doc-rfc-std 20030621-1 Standard RFCs > ii doc-rfc-std-proposed 20030621-1 Proposed Standard RFCs > > /usr/share/doc/RFC$ zgrep -ie Sent-Via */*.txt.gz > /usr/share/doc/RFC$ > -- > ,,, > (o o) > ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ >