From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul R Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: redisplay system of emacs Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:54:03 +0100 Message-ID: <877hqzvmec.fsf@gmail.com> References: <4B633B7C.8030700@gmx.de> <87aavwrw0r.fsf@xemacs.org> <87bpgbgbpk.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87y6jfrh4w.fsf@xemacs.org> <87zl3vetpo.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1264852503 8989 80.91.229.12 (30 Jan 2010 11:55:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:55:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 30 12:54:59 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NbBu5-0000pz-7r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:54:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58063 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NbBu4-0000vw-D1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:54:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NbBty-0000v1-5O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:54:10 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60978 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NbBtx-0000ut-Ne for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:54:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NbBtw-0000dO-Sv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:54:09 -0500 Original-Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.149]:36843) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NbBtw-0000d0-In; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:54:08 -0500 Original-Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so150933eyg.34 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:54:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:references :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=eJgm+6Lz3JqLBh4DdTbOwHbTtJc4WljnX+n29pYtfzE=; b=wuW+u/9n2iZFitcqNdO2UQmyQA7WAY4iceG80ye/eTRFrdTgSvy5n2nwcrLSiDTCKn 2zGUvrpU9mA7g8RQrrWbVikiYZI2hhSFsPNti0IJm5S4JxvTMpR786d1vu6EHyeNy3oj DVZ/Ui0mV64pg7eq7y3nJ47qzb1cSIYvoLJxg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; b=iYgLMXm8I8XUYQLDsbuoSBsPbUtEj4Vx0/YiOwoOx6LRJ3yuEdiS1Ns53b4c6WW1kG BE37sqHYnC4+pH/tHIWdGTcRY4J00pLC/F14FEckkNVNGxo+2d2zf6yIvY9IZDZsGqMP X0TIZq4hwP/fB6e4wv08uYYuJjFrBwHjLCF4Q= Original-Received: by 10.213.48.2 with SMTP id p2mr1968676ebf.60.1264852446613; Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:54:06 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from ubuT42 (vil35-2-82-227-204-220.fbx.proxad.net [82.227.204.220]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 15sm2058477ewy.8.2010.01.30.03.54.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:54:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87zl3vetpo.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:08:03 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120688 Archived-At: David, Eli, Stephen, Stefan, and others, thank you very much for your insights. That was well argumented, and very constructive, which I guess is not an easy task when speaking from the inside reality of the system, to an enthusiastic outsider. As Stefan pointed out, decades of developers horsepower has so far provided better results than alternative systems, although better designed and backed-up by robust third-party components. Is there an official "emacs 2" page (or project) where emacs people can elaborate on how they would design emacs, if they had to start it from scratch today ? If not, I would be happy to start one and try to sumarize your points, from this thread. It would also be interesting, in this project, to monitor various other attempts to create extensible systems, and retrieve feedback. For exemple, I am amazed by the success of the Xmonad window manager in this field : dynamic community, good documentation, robust and correct behaviour. Few people have expected it 3 years ago, when this Haskell extensible system was first announced. A lot of people (including me) considered static strictness to be a poor design choice for extensibility. This is just an example of interesting feedback from other's experiences. -- Paul