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From: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
To: Ivan Kanis <expire-by-2010-07-21@kanis.fr>
Cc: Tom <levelhalom@gmail.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:26:47 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <877hkv2hco.fsf@catnip.gol.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87bpa7uu1e.fsf@kanis.fr> (Ivan Kanis's message of "Fri, 16 Jul 2010 21:05:17 +0200")

Ivan Kanis <expire-by-2010-07-21@kanis.fr> writes:
> I side with Tom, I wouldn't mind adding one line to my .emacs in favor
> of easing new users experience.

It isn't that simple.  You can't just move some bindings around without
affecting other bindings, and there are _lots of bindings_ in Emacs,
which are not all defined in one place, or even in one code-base.

If Emacs were a simple minimal-functionality editor like notepad with
all its bindings defined in a single list, maybe you could easily offer
alternative binding sets -- but it isn't.

You can see the problem in the existing cua-mode:  even though it only
tries to offer a very few CUA bindings, it has to resort to awful dodgy
hacks to do so, to avoid (or at least try to avoid) stepping on other
bindings.

-Miles

-- 
Omochiroi!



  reply	other threads:[~2010-07-16 22:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 349+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-07-12 19:18 Emacs learning curve grischka
2010-07-12 20:53 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-12 21:07   ` immanuel litzroth
2010-07-12 22:03   ` Drew Adams
2010-07-12 22:29     ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-12 23:22       ` Drew Adams
2010-07-12 23:53         ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13  1:17           ` Drew Adams
2010-07-13  3:07             ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13  5:59               ` Drew Adams
2010-07-14  8:18                 ` Tom
2010-07-14  9:38                   ` David Kastrup
2010-07-14 10:31                     ` Tom
2010-07-14 18:32                       ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15  8:22                       ` Miles Bader
2010-07-15  8:51                         ` Tom
2010-07-15  9:05                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15  9:27                             ` Tom
2010-07-15  9:41                               ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 10:09                                 ` Tom
2010-07-15 10:24                                   ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 10:31                                     ` Tom
2010-07-15 15:05                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-15 15:15                                   ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 15:39                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16  4:35                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-16  9:15                                     ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-16  9:25                                       ` Miles Bader
2010-07-16 10:39                                       ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-15 10:00                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-15 10:14                                 ` Tom
2010-07-15 10:25                                   ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15 10:34                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-16 16:56                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-16 17:12                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 17:27                               ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-16 17:38                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 18:11                                   ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-16 18:23                                     ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-16 20:10                                       ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-16 22:16                                         ` Miles Bader
2010-07-17  5:45                                           ` David Kastrup
2010-07-16 23:07                                         ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-17  6:02                                           ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-17  6:29                                             ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-17  7:21                                             ` David Kastrup
2010-07-17  7:43                                               ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-17 12:15                                             ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-17 12:27                                               ` David Kastrup
2010-07-17 13:01                                                 ` John Yates
2010-07-17 16:15                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-17 12:50                                               ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-17 16:11                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-19 19:39                                               ` Andy Wingo
2010-07-19 19:47                                                 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-17 14:28                                             ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-17 15:56                                               ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-18 13:00                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-18 19:21                                                   ` Teemu Likonen
2010-07-20  1:56                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-20 23:25                                                       ` Kim F. Storm
2010-07-17  6:09                                         ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-22 12:15                                           ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 13:16                                             ` Tassilo Horn
     [not found]                                               ` <770DFAD9-23D5-4BD3-A209-7E64FFC8999C@gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                 ` <201007230857.48161.tassilo@member.fsf.org>
2010-07-23 12:53                                                   ` Ivan Andrus
2010-07-16 18:15                                   ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-16 18:59                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 19:02                                       ` David Kastrup
2010-07-16 19:14                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-16 18:16                                 ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-22 17:52                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-22 18:04                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-22 18:38                                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-22 18:40                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 22:29                           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-16  9:04                       ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-16 19:05                       ` Ivan Kanis
2010-07-16 22:26                         ` Miles Bader [this message]
2010-07-17 17:08                           ` Ivan Kanis
2010-07-17 17:51                             ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-22 11:36                               ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 12:14                                 ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-22 12:18                                   ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 13:03                                     ` Tassilo Horn
2010-07-22 18:01                                   ` Ivan Kanis
2010-07-22 19:45                                     ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 19:56                                       ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-07-22 21:58                                         ` Stephen Eilert
2010-07-23  6:08                                           ` David Kastrup
2010-07-23  6:23                                             ` Fren Zeee
2010-07-23 18:23                                           ` Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2010-07-23  7:28                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-22 12:24                                 ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 12:37                                   ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 14:20                                 ` Davis Herring
2010-07-22 15:59                                   ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-22 17:52                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-23  6:18                               ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Daniel Colascione
2010-07-23  7:13                                 ` A more modest proposal David Kastrup
2010-07-23  7:20                                 ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Jan Djärv
2010-07-23  7:23                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2010-07-23  8:04                                     ` A more modest proposal Thien-Thi Nguyen
2010-07-23  9:19                                     ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Jan Djärv
2010-07-23  9:29                                       ` A more modest proposal Miles Bader
2010-07-23 10:39                                         ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-23 15:10                                       ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Drew Adams
2010-07-23  7:28                                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-23  8:25                                   ` A more modest proposal Miles Bader
2010-07-23  8:47                                     ` David Kastrup
2010-07-23  9:00                                       ` Miles Bader
2010-07-23 10:25                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-23 14:02                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-23 14:37                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-23 17:29                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2010-07-23 14:59                                 ` A more modest proposal (Was: Emacs learning curve) Stephen Eilert
2010-07-23 15:33                                 ` A more modest proposal Chong Yidong
2010-07-17 20:09                             ` Emacs learning curve Miles Bader
2010-07-17 20:30                               ` Omi[cs]iroi! (was: Emacs learning curve) Drew Adams
2010-07-17 20:41                                 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-17 20:59                                   ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-17 21:11                                     ` Drew Adams
2010-07-18  0:59                                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-17 11:15                         ` Emacs learning curve Dirk-Jan C. Binnema
2010-07-21 15:31                         ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-21 15:48                           ` Sebastian Rose
2010-07-21 16:50                           ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 17:52                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-22 18:40                           ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 19:21                             ` David Kastrup
2010-07-22 19:27                               ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-07-25 12:33                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-25 14:22                                   ` Drew Adams
2010-07-25 14:59                                     ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-25 16:04                                       ` Drew Adams
2010-07-25 20:32                                     ` Fabian Ezequiel Gallina
2010-07-23 17:20                               ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-23 17:57                                 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-23 18:19                                   ` Drew Adams
2010-07-24  3:33                                   ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-24  4:51                                     ` Miles Bader
2010-07-24 11:52                                       ` Kim F. Storm
2010-07-24 14:09                                         ` Miles Bader
2010-07-25  2:07                                         ` David Robinow
2010-07-23 13:47                       ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-23 14:41                         ` Tom
2010-07-23 16:02                           ` Drew Adams
2010-07-23 17:50                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-23 18:07                               ` Drew Adams
2010-07-23 20:28                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-23 22:21                                   ` Drew Adams
2010-07-23 23:46                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-23 23:52                                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-24  1:16                                       ` Drew Adams
2010-07-24  1:16                                       ` Please take off-list [Was: Emacs learning curve] Chong Yidong
2010-07-24 14:30                                 ` Emacs learning curve Sean Sieger
2010-07-23 19:12                               ` Tom
2010-07-24  8:55                                 ` Leo
2010-07-24 13:48                                   ` joakim
2010-07-24 17:57                                   ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-07-23 18:25                             ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-23 18:50                               ` Drew Adams
2010-07-23 19:27                                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-23 20:20                                   ` (OT) natural language speakers (was: Emacs learning curve) Drew Adams
2010-07-23 20:28                                     ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-24  6:38                                 ` Emacs learning curve Ivan Andrus
2010-07-23 17:46                           ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-14 12:13                 ` René Kyllingstad
2010-07-13  1:58           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13  3:25             ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13  6:17               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13  6:34               ` Tom
2010-07-13  8:02                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13  8:32                   ` Tom
2010-07-13  9:03                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-13  9:20                       ` Tom
2010-07-13  9:19                     ` immanuel litzroth
2010-07-13 11:59                     ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-13 12:07                       ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 12:54                         ` joakim
2010-07-13 15:33                           ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 15:49                             ` joakim
2010-07-13 18:02                               ` Alex Ott
2010-07-13 16:12                             ` David Engster
2010-07-13 16:26                               ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 18:45                                 ` David Engster
2010-07-14  2:49                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-14 11:43                                     ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-14 13:06                                       ` David Engster
2010-07-13 17:12                               ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-13 22:09                                 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-13 12:19                       ` joakim
2010-07-13 12:41                       ` Tom
2010-07-13 15:44                       ` CEDET discoverability (was: Emacs learning curve) Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 15:55                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 16:29                           ` CEDET discoverability David Kastrup
2010-07-13 17:14                             ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-13 22:16                               ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-14  5:02                               ` David Kastrup
2010-07-14 15:38                                 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-14 18:48                                   ` David Kastrup
2010-07-14 19:32                                     ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-15  6:11                                       ` David Kastrup
2010-07-15  0:31                                     ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-14 20:12                                   ` David Reitter
2010-07-14  0:50                             ` Christoph
2010-07-13 22:30                         ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-13 22:24                           ` Bruce Stephens
2010-07-13 16:43                       ` CEDET (was: Emacs learning curve) Leo
2010-07-13 17:16                         ` CEDET Chong Yidong
2010-07-13 20:08     ` Emacs learning curve Joe Brenner
2010-07-14 17:16       ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-13 21:01     ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-13 21:14       ` Drew Adams
2010-07-13 21:58         ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-14 10:41     ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-14 14:03       ` Drew Adams
2010-07-14 18:36         ` David Kastrup
2010-07-12 23:28   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-13  0:18     ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 16:54       ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-13 23:27       ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-13  7:56   ` christian.lynbech
2010-07-13  8:10     ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13  8:44       ` joakim
2010-07-13  9:09       ` immanuel litzroth
2010-07-13 11:43       ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-07-13 23:36     ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13  9:23   ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13 10:39     ` Developer contributions / was: " David Reitter
2010-07-13 22:37     ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-14  0:24       ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-07-14  2:32       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-07-14  7:19       ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-13  9:49   ` Miles Bader
2010-07-13 23:06     ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-13 13:51 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-13 14:10   ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13 17:03     ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-13 18:29   ` grischka
2010-07-14 17:16     ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-15 15:36       ` grischka
2010-07-29 20:46       ` Ted Zlatanov
2010-07-31 12:02         ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-31 13:32           ` martin rudalics
2010-07-31 13:44             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-31 15:04               ` martin rudalics
2010-08-02 14:56           ` Ted Zlatanov
2010-08-02 15:43             ` Sean Sieger
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-08-02 19:02 grischka
2010-07-15 15:05 grischka
2010-07-14 17:14 grischka
2010-07-14 18:05 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-15  8:33   ` Uday S Reddy
2010-07-15 13:49     ` Drew Adams
2010-07-16  1:31   ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-16  2:52     ` Miles Bader
2010-07-16  5:30     ` David Kastrup
2010-07-13  2:13 grischka
2010-07-13  5:58 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-10 19:27 MON KEY
2010-07-11  2:16 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11  3:39   ` MON KEY
2010-07-11 11:05     ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-09 19:12 Noah Lavine
2010-07-10  6:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-10 10:36   ` Tom
2010-07-10 11:17     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-10 11:41       ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 15:07         ` Tom
2010-07-10 16:23           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-10 16:39             ` Deniz Dogan
2010-07-10 16:44             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11  1:22               ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-11  8:33               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-11 11:10                 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-12 16:54                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-12 17:08                     ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-12 17:45                       ` joakim
2010-07-12 17:59                         ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-13  6:41                         ` David Kastrup
2010-07-12 17:53                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2010-07-12 17:48                     ` Drew Adams
2010-07-12 18:05                       ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-10 17:57             ` Tom
2010-07-10 18:32               ` Bernardo Barros
2010-07-10 21:03               ` David Kastrup
2010-07-11  8:34                 ` Tom
2010-07-11 10:51                   ` Sebastian Rose
2010-07-11 16:05                     ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-11 16:55                       ` Miles Bader
2010-07-11 17:14                         ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-11 17:59                           ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-11 18:01                             ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-11 19:00                             ` Jan Djärv
2010-07-11 19:08                               ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-11 22:49                             ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-12  7:25                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12  9:00                                 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-12  9:30                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-12 20:56                                     ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-11 18:00                           ` Drew Adams
2010-07-11 22:49                             ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-11 23:18                               ` Drew Adams
2010-07-11 18:05                           ` Sebastian Rose
2010-07-11 15:08                   ` Drew Adams
2010-08-04 20:54           ` Walter Alejandro Iglesias
2010-08-05 17:39             ` Barry Fishman
2010-08-06  2:48               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-06  2:59               ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-06  3:10                 ` Miles Bader
2010-08-06  5:18                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-06 11:43                 ` Walter Alejandro Iglesias
2010-07-10 23:22         ` Juri Linkov
2010-07-11  1:00         ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-11  1:44           ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-07-11  2:14           ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-11  2:23             ` Sean Sieger
2010-07-11  2:47               ` Lennart Borgman
2010-07-18 19:33         ` Giorgos Keramidas
2010-08-02  9:19       ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 13:26         ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-02 14:57           ` Tassilo Horn
2010-08-02 15:00             ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-02 15:50             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 18:19               ` Tassilo Horn
2010-08-02 20:31             ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 21:42               ` Johan Bockgård
2010-08-04 17:49                 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 14:16         ` Drew Adams
2010-08-02 15:07           ` Sean Sieger
2010-08-02 15:55           ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 20:35           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-08-02 21:11             ` Drew Adams
2010-08-02 18:13         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-02 18:37           ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 19:10             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-02 20:02               ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-03  5:57                 ` David Kastrup
2010-08-02 18:39           ` Tom
2010-08-02 18:43             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-08-02 19:53               ` joakim
2010-08-03 22:07                 ` Eric M. Ludlam
2010-08-04  9:13                   ` David Kastrup
2010-08-04  9:42                     ` Alex Ott
2010-08-03  3:33           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-03 18:45         ` Andy Wingo
2010-08-04 12:36           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-07-10 15:01   ` Noah Lavine
2010-07-08  7:44 Efforts to attract more users? joakim
2010-07-09  3:05 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-09  7:33   ` Emacs learning curve (was Re: Efforts to attract more users?) christian.lynbech
2010-07-09  7:43     ` Emacs learning curve Masatake YAMATO

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