From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: org-export raises stringp nil error Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:19:58 +0900 Message-ID: <877glehgw1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87ip539io1.fsf@nautilus.nautilus> <87zjye96ph.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87vc928kcm.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <83sj46z468.fsf@gnu.org> <87txomz1j7.fsf@yandex.ru> <83li9yyyul.fsf@gnu.org> <87li9xu9y5.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83zjydy8ny.fsf@gnu.org> <87vc91slfj.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83haklx7yq.fsf@gnu.org> <87li9wh33d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83zjycwiow.fsf@gnu.org> <87hakjh1ey.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83oberw689.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1362965221 834 80.91.229.3 (11 Mar 2013 01:27:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 01:27:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stromeko@nexgo.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 11 02:27:23 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UErWN-0004SE-Ae for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 02:27:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51601 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UErW1-0005rD-24 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:27:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49390) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UErVx-0005r7-9X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:26:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UErVv-0004hX-Cu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:26:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:34959) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UErPF-0002x0-JT; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:20:02 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815D5970900; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:19:58 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 385DB11F432; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:19:58 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <83oberw689.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:157709 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > If so, I have no idea why you came to the conclusion it's a failed > > experiment. > > Because many (most?) users want the whole deal. As one Stephen > Turnbull says on this page: > > http://www.xemacs.org/Releases/Public-21.2/projects/sumo.html > > and I quote: "The packages are popular, but the typical user of the > core tarball wants the kitchen sink." Yeah, I already mentioned that in this thread, too. It doesn't mean that separation of core and packages failed, because there are *ongoing* advantages to a package system that can be updated at one's convenience. It means that *people who are installing XEmacs for the first time* find the additional download inconvenient.[1] After that, those who speak up (and some do even without having a bug to report) say they enjoy the fact that they can update their favorite packages without reinstalling the core. In any case, it's easy enough to address conceptually by just including a reasonably fresh sumo tarball in the core tarball. It hasn't been done because beta testers generally don't care (they use Mercurial, anyway), the stability constraints on 21.4 are severe, and in any case most distros provide a good installation for those who just want an editor that works. Footnotes: [1] That page was also written at a time when we still followed the old Emacs convention of Lisp under $prefix/lib, while the FLOSS world, including popular distros, was moving to $prefix/share for FHS conformance. This resulted in a fair amount of confusion about where to find the packages for new users, especially those moving from distro-provided packages to building from source and SUMO.