From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why is FUNC in cl-callf not allowed to be an expression? Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 02:20:27 +0200 Message-ID: <877eac3fzo.fsf@web.de> References: <874l631ek1.fsf@web.de> <87pnoqtuhm.fsf@web.de> <87r2961gox.fsf@web.de> <87mujohasa.fsf@web.de> <87a7fn3c6c.fsf@web.de> <875zqabh3t.fsf@web.de> <87zhnma11c.fsf@web.de> <871s0y3weo.fsf@web.de> <87tvdshew9.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="93869"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 27 02:21:23 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hV3OE-000OH4-GV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 May 2019 02:21:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37918 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hV3OD-00057b-6i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 26 May 2019 20:21:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50024) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hV3NZ-00057O-FG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 May 2019 20:20:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hV3NY-0006bq-I8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 May 2019 20:20:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]:58165) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hV3NY-0006aL-0y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 26 May 2019 20:20:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1558916428; bh=RXT7eYqXXNvsZi0Avl5vKA20fBruWKb5TNfvon4Y4Es=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Ikj66EFdJC0tNonJFP87Uo30OIp/QI73EZXbjN4Dsr+h9dPgUBOjCShUqi82oPB9/ D+EFLfuokkWhzeCCg+LA78+Urs6NH0BnpQzy/ZKtLiFN03YiCsV1gt++jlQwYS43AC 97GVBMvM3MYt4559KSylF3ghFbWRgb78MsEYxLaI= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([188.110.143.34]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb103 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M4qWn-1ghUWn2z41-00z0P1; Mon, 27 May 2019 02:20:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 18 May 2019 10:09:41 -0400") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:HxxvkoNrNXPlIrJotmKLLBNFVvEuhrzsFrzyvvOPN4dS/+slZqH YRvcUiCeidGV7du25Gu+QKc+aEJboaKivkcRi+mChhxS5aTptoGBfbbhCUE7SRxNx8Y3zI7 oz8yEDTh8vNljPcZHIxSj77xT96q8xyV+U25HaW9fZ1NYivMsJfrk4AkEtSapCoJSfakBHN AkgpjHeTdG5AujxMBdQLg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:2Izs9F1uctw=:jnwS13t597cvfpQcmC4PAa R3gtco+GVjREK3qmFiki4jFbClEMuOI11HnaXpVvayH+S1PaDCJhxxN39kwRu4A3a0BMz+x86 /Jem5GYJCz8G4gWCV0YOm9zGRPxG2C59w+33WkUAovU+UTabjs7XHYAIyizAWctBOaVL6dE/F 3AZVutTTyKhbAZ2pwzYW96c86/sp1TzNuqum734VnoqgMgecsVgmai8VGTGT3NPBzspeGeEwV RRSkvups+YX868E78bm1Brj6ErKsWkHMspoY5elp5lzrs+yUpoG+9XcyfdwTEMMB7zH0VJfEM 2Y82WMPZsmNezfEjVGUsnoRIBnwWTi0UTMEabdrF8LFfr6gW6tU6ntxBzhTvKxkkHlKgtdu9/ Fai74/QSUnMXxCaSUNSLxo1pUz/D2OsEniUW/s+HGdPq5kS4tTDoVKCUk/kWA1RjGVivFbZs/ tqGbuM+IvfQWasqS0gcEwtAr0uDU/TCNae6krE1u55+9JdlipQ85ghMQN+Ej2qAlbOW7EuELR LdFqpILqemYr1L8Qf9c/Gu2G+SRFmJU1knP6j0xuAeR3BmtnznoxqUMoYHFs3KI6LkChGSpFs Da6r6139p6UriYXLjwAAvlRO3O2Yg3QWZADjWPHN/QyLgkuh+xP3HR0wjTg+MbCwtIzKb3sLR FLSr5OjNUIopS6ojIsbmQjn4Ux5iSnTY/SNxUz9WBAR6CH+MRmVEmrLIxiBGGkfwBeeCFSfy+ G5Prhel3u1Ws+rgl+J4KD7aHpcPE1OLuoh/URlS+GPjTLDcBAm+tiyYjQZfjEYqyRzBvWqT8 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.17.11 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:237028 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > Indeed, they're closely related but symbol-macrolet does not "evaluates" > anything at the "binding" site. Also it can also be used for purposes > different from "places", e.g. to keep a log of all the accessed to > a "variable" (tho, we could just as well create a (journaled PLACE) > pseudo place which would record accesses in the very same way). I also come to the conclusion that symbol-macrolet and place binding are two different things. E.g. in (macroexpand-all '(gv-place-bind ((p (car (cdr x)))) (progn (cl-incf p) p))) ==> (let* ((#1=#:v (cdr x))) (progn (setcar #1# (1+ #2=(car #1#))) #2#)) we want that the (cdr x) "calculation" is factored out because it is always the same (an "inner place" reference so to say). OTOH, `symbol-macrolet' might be used for arbitrary calculations. It would be surprising (wrong) if in (symbol-macrolet ((r (list (random)))) (list r r)) the `random' function would be called only once. One can't reliably guess from the bound expression which case the coder wants, so I'll leave s-macrolet as is. Michael.