From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Yoni Rabkin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What is GNU ELPA? Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 22:42:57 -0400 Message-ID: <877dxadkum.fsf@rabkins.net> References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <07d7ff5d-dd57-00e7-933f-3188d57d6185@yandex.ru> <87blmmehwh.fsf@rabkins.net> <6dcccc3a-b1f2-9126-43a9-ca2623e487f4@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="78070"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: Richard Stallman , joostkremers@fastmail.fm, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, pcr910303@icloud.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 18 04:43:32 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaVka-000KE3-DR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 04:43:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42208 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaVkZ-0005yD-Gc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 22:43:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59980) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaVk6-0005X2-DR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 22:43:02 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay0199.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.199]:56506 helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaVk5-00022T-Ir; Sun, 17 May 2020 22:43:02 -0400 Original-Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay06.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7305182251AD; Mon, 18 May 2020 02:42:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 796F6E69407261626B696E732E6E6574 X-HE-Tag: cap48_714ac32a10c63 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 3671 Original-Received: from birch.rabkins.net (c-73-238-99-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.238.99.162]) (Authenticated sender: yoni@rabkins.net) by omf14.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 18 May 2020 02:42:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Ethics: Use GNU In-Reply-To: <6dcccc3a-b1f2-9126-43a9-ca2623e487f4@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Sun, 17 May 2020 20:56:31 +0300") Received-SPF: none client-ip=216.40.44.199; envelope-from=yoni@rabkins.net; helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/17 22:43:00 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250692 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 17.05.2020 17:49, Yoni Rabkin wrote: >> In case it is an interesting data point, ELPA may be invisible and >> un-discoverable to many Emacs users. Here is why I think this may be the >> case: >> I've been using Emacs for decades, and I use it every day for my >> living >> (read: Emacs is crucial to me and my family). I have a few packages >> installed in an ~/elisp/ directory and I load those manually via my >> ~/.emacs. >> Over all of these years I have never had Emacs ask, offer, or >> otherwise >> point out ELPA. The only reason I know it even exists is because as a >> GNU maintainer of some emacs extensions, people sometimes asked my why >> those extensions are not in ELPA. At that point, I needed to try and >> figure out what ELPA even was (not to mention what MELPA was, and what >> the difference is between them.) > > I think that ties in to my suggestion that we should promote ELPA > more, no less. > > Probably feature it in the Getting Started guide. Maybe even on the > startup screen. > > The menu item "Manage Emacs Packages" could also use a more prominent > position. > >> Please don't take this as criticism of ELPA or the efforts of the > people who work on it, as it is not intended to be one. Instead, I > wanted to share my real-world use of Emacs in relation to ELPA, in > case it would be a valuable data-point for the people who are > considering the question in the subject of the thread: "What is GNU > ELPA?" > > In your opinion, what would have been the best option to raise > awareness of it? It's a bootstrapping problem, since I don't use ELPA and my Emacs is already tuned to my needs. I guess that if I had a problem with Emacs, and I did a web search for it, then it would be useful if the first few results would be links to something that points at ELPA. I also wouldn't mind a weekly or monthly mailing list posting somewhere that presents a few choice packages on ELPA, explaining why its good and how people are using it to be effective. If I read about something really neat there, I might be tempted to go to ELPA to get it. -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"