From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 18:10:18 +0300 Message-ID: <877dszt4it.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <875z8ortot.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <32292E31-1603-4EF9-B772-EBD378C32F76@gmail.com> <83o8mcfjxb.fsf@gnu.org> <83een8fi2u.fsf@gnu.org> <87pn6stdc0.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <875z8j454w.fsf@gnus.org> <878sdft6kd.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28910"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 17:11:15 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH7BL-0007RK-Nv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 17:11:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44648 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH7BK-0003le-PG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 11:11:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44372) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH7Ad-0002xA-2N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 11:10:31 -0400 Original-Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:56203) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH7Aa-0003Sx-1Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 11:10:30 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 149.0.50.61 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [149.0.50.61]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 83A6EC0005; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:10:20 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.198; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay6-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/12 11:10:24 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255369 Archived-At: On 2020-09-12 17:55 +03, Gregory Heytings wrote: > I don't think it's a good thing if the first message you send to a > new user is "you will suffer" (or "abandon all hope, ye who enter > here"). I don=E2=80=99t get why you equate =E2=80=98effort=E2=80=99 with =E2=80=98s= uffering=E2=80=99. That=E2=80=99s a reductio ad absurdum, and pretty far off from "this thing here is something that=E2=80=99ll pay you back with great rewards once you decide to invest s= ome time into learning it". > The purpose of the current discussion is only to do something to give > them a feeling of curiosity instead of a feeling of fear. Which is not something I disagree with. All I=E2=80=99m saying is that a u= ser who has no interest in Emacs should not be how we=E2=80=99re designing for. Because that limits what you can achieve. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427