From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 09:42:16 +0100 Message-ID: <877dpfcxp3.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <838s9zavcx.fsf@gnu.org> <87im92nmd6.fsf@gnus.org> <83y2hx91u1.fsf@gnu.org> <87czz9enc6.fsf@gmail.com> <83sg858yjr.fsf@gnu.org> <878s9wetdb.fsf@gmail.com> <81fd6785-f9b5-4926-9363-1d63f8672599@default> <5e031a6e-f94e-495e-a8cf-9e9db1544dbe@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35275"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: eliz@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 18 09:43:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kqBLx-00091z-FC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 09:43:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59294 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqBLw-0008JO-FQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 03:43:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51294) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqBLD-0007rT-6S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 03:42:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]:46652) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kqBLB-000570-In; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 03:42:22 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id d13so1194607wrc.13; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 00:42:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-followup-to:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HwpRhFlNb5bA7IN/biYhUlX61CS9MX4ypWobf/3so88=; b=SuLunTY3y2KWdcvP7+gMJHiSA3/zGIE5/0Fxvjb+LqmLmrUPnSXuvQm95ZmL5AoBy5 L4YPG8hGeGY2ef8sgt3Vfm1dfRKUL8Ff0qbGMrKFyn6DCFA+vl7D1P/VnZSxi4UTbSr2 ZPk8pnsLe9xiTWtpE2yaPE3O9EHF5UFc+X08tQWLA+xgZiIzz11W8UftmXJfbpo1oabZ O9ONAjSWjPoPMO7nkxoVYLKUmUMhjgBMwCnRsjVTxbkvjCBFTWJj0fZfYMq/F1t9qXwI AAN//aSJU8sVugnehSB5daoAo/s4hjLLAXh2TshH3EGucX4zYuNuuqbQxVZe9Iiq4Kk1 7EJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-followup-to :mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HwpRhFlNb5bA7IN/biYhUlX61CS9MX4ypWobf/3so88=; b=ZAd7jPqgn+YN2lcK1U4M7wtP7w7DmkOutzVjWzEgEz2onBL/t6qi6BhElbxKIQEITf dCYSmlLwsZC1+QQ+tySYkAtAts89ae0MXCXVSmibwBqnB3+MWIx/Q6WVfsFraSa8IJ80 mD0lT7U8HNAA3YURQlmNpIgsa9oLGxgfQZ3yFqMrGe09kzC5230dn6KUF0ZwBhJPYGO8 SFTUrXMsPEgY5dO7c/4zkyg9jkJLrFxt6aE4eSZvobLF8TfnGZiaZ69mMQ0FaelKosZk fZZYXJiXpGma4CUfxu2mcUECH77mhZjX3sgjPs1ULyPFw4Qe20yDU1kxpyR3RplSKQf4 E/Fw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531dIGMYAL9xhQLKtEoUTIFSfTlc1SzyHNCKReTqfMcPYLqXVSgf c7FY4gS4dmTLwxLHRGbxSMhTO4nOCKSUaQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyoTChTsLxDFmysxq9cByVdqXzWXbJN6dLg5XSi8mCqD/Yom7RhM18s9f2RIPCwqZPJASCcDA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:80ae:: with SMTP id 43mr3159733wrl.50.1608280938748; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 00:42:18 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from rltb (vav06-1-78-207-202-134.fbx.proxad.net. [78.207.202.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d187sm10526774wmd.8.2020.12.18.00.42.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 18 Dec 2020 00:42:17 -0800 (PST) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes In-Reply-To: <5e031a6e-f94e-495e-a8cf-9e9db1544dbe@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 17 Dec 2020 22:36:31 -0800 (PST)") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42a; envelope-from=rpluim@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261170 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> > > Nothing, except that people have been conditioned to expect that >> > > changes in options get saved automatically, >> > I assume you mean _some_ people. >>=20 >> Would each you please take a deep breath, and respond >> more kindly from now on? > > Would you please take a deep breath? I don't think > there was anything unkind in either what Robert said > or in my reply to him. > I agree > Did you actually read what each of us said? The point > of my emphasis on "some" was elaborated in the rest of > what I said, the point of which was that we can easily > accommodate _both_ expectations of saving automatically > and saving only on demand. > True, although adding an option that says 'save all changes automatically' will help those who already know how to make configuration changes permanent. I was aiming more for the subset of people who don=CA=BCt know that yet. > I don't even see any disagreement in what we were each > saying. Some people _are_ used to automatic saving, > and we can accommodate that while also giving others > what they expect (which is what we have now). The only disagreement is whether such an option should be enabled by default for changes made via the menus, I think. Robert