From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Phillip Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [feature/internal-msys] thoughts of a more function windows package Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:27:15 +0100 Message-ID: <877dkpb2h8.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87pn2dq3xv.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83ft39hnk1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7nppzjy.fsf@russet.org.uk> <838s90hhb6.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh1gircl.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83turofw8r.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg6v76fd.fsf_-_@russet.org.uk> <87y2dd8g04.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86o8e9kolk.fsf@protonmail.com> <87tunzab50.fsf@russet.org.uk> <86lf9729dz.fsf@protonmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2745"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Wayne Harris To: Wayne Harris via "Emacs development discussions." Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 26 15:28:57 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lb1IH-0000Nr-3G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 15:28:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59706 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lb1IG-0002zO-1b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 09:28:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39292) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lb1HR-0002Sd-FB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 09:28:05 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:48906) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lb1HM-0007oj-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 09:28:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UTb2cRAJMR7rkedzHusdpvJ0RD1jYbVMhGcjm7vKDVY=; b=fThBweOdS4AJLcMikShdx+gcp HHOahvaL9tUUITK/jkoJ0U6dUVcFZNnAp7Xiw0SxX2kX7Li1LQoNkgWHHiSGFnkoLrl6SVcXQrFJ6 cSK3V66K34N18lycEADn6RNb1As9S1CbDHUSyzHoTNH/IhQcgbNsSPKI4Lv8R1bNiaWabjC10MmjY 5u8rX2TclLI0peB/XF7MDXeY4IDyXKdaXcMeiXXVig6oiy/gVdewXMP2akRQLac2YbH0F5+TgBGZP VMNLCrH3odA4ykI3Xqgy8xUUekQilbaRWwErqayv6AJlCnSEtb03YeIqczEHoVNq2aWGlGONF/MPO usCTI8ijw==; Original-Received: from cpc142648-benw12-2-0-cust627.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.10.74.116]:58518 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1lb1Ge-00GjKA-W3; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:27:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: <86lf9729dz.fsf@protonmail.com> (Wayne Harris via's message of "Sat, 24 Apr 2021 08:46:00 -0300") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.129.138.110; envelope-from=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk; helo=cloud103.planethippo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:268468 Archived-At: Wayne Harris via "Emacs development discussions." writes: > Phillip Lord writes: > > [...] > >> I can certainly appreciate that. I sit somewhere in the middle: I use >> Emacs build from master, but most of my emacs packages are specific >> versions, rather than running from everyones heads. > > How do you do that? It seems you take the .exe but keep .el separate? > That sounds crazy to me. How would I know all my new .exe still works > with my very old .el files? Oh, sorry, I didn't describe it well. I use Emacs and all the lisp files in the main repo. My external packages mostly come from melpa-stable and elpa which are tagged versions. I sync my computers with unison and keep the packages installed using use-package; the versions formally aren't linked between machines, but tools like straight.el would do that for you. >> But, like it or lump it, msys2 doesn't do that. They have a versioned, >> hash summed installer, but after that it just updates to the latest >> version, with no specific release pattern (or a rolling release if you >> prefer). [...] > > That's indeed a big problem for people who do work dependent on computer > tools --- probably anyone who does any serious work on computers. I > also see many non-professional users, say, who just hate the surprise of > updates. (They might have all the time in the world to learn new > behaviors, but they just hate it. Windows forums are full of angry > customers.) Perhaps. Clearly msys2 did it for a reasons, and likewise a lot of Emacs users install from melpa which mostly runs on a dirty head or rolling release if you prefer. It always sounded like a nightmare to me, but it seems to work for many people. > > That's why I loved the Guix-news posted by Nikolay Kudryavtsev. That's > what I like about computer systems --- repetitive behavior with > mathematical guarantee. It's incredible that people tolerate computers > with human-like behavior, ``mood-dependent'' say. > >>> As an example, I've built my own OpenBSD distribution because I wanted >>> an assurance in the behavior of the system, besides a quick >>> installation. I install it with a single command line and it asks no >>> questions. It comes ready to do all the things *I* usually do. >> >> Something close to this, I think we could achieve. Install Emacs, have >> it ask "do you want to link to an msys2 installation? Do you want to >> install it? Do you want to update it with Emacs standard packages". >> >> So three questions, but not none. > > That sounds nice. If I had to start my ``GNU Emacs system'' from > scratch, this step would be a nice one. The GNU Emacs on Windows is > handicapped without lots of other UNIX programs. Yes, I agree. Phil