From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: NonGNU ELPA work Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:05:06 +0000 Message-ID: <877df68f1p.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87fsxibcu2.fsf@163.com> <8735tiw3od.fsf@posteo.net> <874kdyazvj.fsf@163.com> <87y2baun1b.fsf@posteo.net> <87pmwm9e0l.fsf@163.com> <87mtrqufyz.fsf@posteo.net> <878s39v6hj.fsf_-_@posteo.net> <87tulwubtw.fsf@posteo.net> <87pmsygb2c.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9371"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Monnier , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 24 12:28:40 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mTiRb-0002E1-Iv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:28:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49482 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTiRZ-00050o-GB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 06:28:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45812) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTi4y-00014o-F5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 06:05:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:40325) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTi4s-0002c2-Ic for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 06:05:16 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D6E8240026 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:05:08 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1632477908; bh=39rcNJkLBuHtKYvm1LKg2V8tOgNLXNc98KMo6du7LTE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=hfodT5ieRukRwurVr9XzadUZX+kvG56b4xlSw/OdpVU5bW7IpHby2f5LMehKGgJHm QLatAqtIbQ7+ZbmIlwkUFV0jIAcguzmb+DpqlQCOoOsH4UT2oQB51o4Yl5ItmJV5H5 OnoMRTGq5HBjgdFgd3NM3ynS3aPX5//PO/trfdZVr0m04vqZT7V4heBMSnyDG8LU7Y S7LjwgS0surOqRhZYktOQoJfA6wEcyIwb0BI+gmfyH9sHDw4oOeDAjQq8rMIavILAv l8qkguotuhmoWqdUUat0byPQdKi56Rv2C6EiFfxSfiJEetE72/of5ka5xCZq2XwfJQ toffPoavSaM5w== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4HG71v1dWtz6tmS; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:05:07 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:16:32 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275392 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> I Cc'ed Drew to see if he is interested in cooperating. > > tl;dr More or less passively, sure. > I'm not going to go to bat for it or overhaul it. > Been there; tried that. That shouldn't be necessary, from what I see, but I haven't experimented a lot yet either. > All of my code is GPL, and I've signed Emacs/FSF > papers. I've said many times that any of it can > be used in any way by Emacs. Ok, I wasn't sure because 1. the libraries aren't part of ELPA 2. as they are developed on EmacsWiki, I wasn't sure if there were any other significant contributors. > I've proposed many of the individual features > to Emacs dev. The code is one thing; the ideas > behind it are another - there are multiple ways > to implement the latter (or similar). I don't > care to re-implement, myself, and I have no > special desire to "own" any of it. > > The main (probably unconscious) uptake of the > ideas has been from 3rd-party libraries such > as Helm (aka Anything), Ivy, etc. implementing > features that Icicles originally introduced > (typically long ago). Vanilla Emacs hasn't > been much interested, IMO. That is one of the reasons I am interested in seeing if they could be added. I am part of a user-generation that's usually to lazy to install new software manually, and instead limit myself to whatever is available on various ELPAs. Not to defend this mentality, just mentioning it. > I don't really understand what "NonGnu" means, > though I've scanned emails that mention it. > There's nothing non-GNU about my code, AFAIK. > But what's in a name? ;-) Nothing in particular, again I (falsely) assume there was a reason against adding your packages to ELPA. > My libraries that have a Version # of 0 do so > because I didn't want to be bothered to update > that field for no special reason, whenever any > "version" (date) of the library could be used. > I don't feel strongly about this; that's just > the reason I did that. I see. Date versioning works too, so this shouldn't be too much of an issue. > I don't use GIT to manage my code. I just post > updates to EmacsWiki. Nearly all of my code > used to be on MELPA, but they stopped pulling > from Emacs Wiki (my pages on the wiki are > locked to all but the wiki admins, FWIW). > > I've been clear that I have no problem with > someone mirroring any of my code from the wiki > to GIT repositories or whatever. I think at > least some of the libraries have been mirrored. > ___ > > I don't have a lot of time to devote to helping > with any mirroring and such. I intend to keep > maintaining my code on EmacsWiki, when I make > changes to it. >From what I see, this is already being done by the emacsmirror project. > As for overlap or redefinition of vanilla > constructs: yes, that's no doubt a problem if > someone expects to somehow integrate it with > Emacs. Loading some libraries redefines > vanilla code. Users of the code need to know > that. > > Most often a redefinition is because either > (1) I think my definition is better (a > replacement) or (2) my definition provides > compatibility with multiple Emacs versions. > Or both at the same time. For integration > with Emacs, changes for #2 aren't needed. I still hesitate, but as I haven't experimented with anything yet, I don't want to give up because of this. > Thank you for your suggestion. I don't expect > anything to come of it, frankly. But anyone > interested is welcome to reuse any bits of my > code, or to look to it for ideas/inspiration > when writing other code. My suggestion would be to start out with a few popular libraries, such as icicles, and see how that goes. -- Philip Kaludercic