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Binnema" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PGTK-related misconceptions Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 12:10:09 +0300 Organization: DJCBSoftware Message-ID: <877d7lmmz9.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87lew7qdtj.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37622"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.13; emacs 29.0.50 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 19 11:59:13 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ngkdc-0009g1-Od for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 11:59:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41868 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngkdb-0006Ex-LN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:59:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41686) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngkK4-0003BV-CR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:39:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::132]:46796) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngkK2-000467-5U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 05:38:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id o2so28310988lfu.13 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 02:38:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date:organization:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=qvFuXaBnj1ePo7o617VpVDcDN3XCDauIecF6j7NDzCY=; b=CQ4aumk6wGofY6M6ztmHnueq7rJQhMoxgB5AGgAn7+hy5lbBC7txRAiv95b0TMaTK7 iZDJvCmcPYGx3+IP0MlThh81wUxdu3dYErBIb4b/pVGqMCdZmM3id8aP8qdmQzP0yIxh CsLzp9Ygl21FQRjFvl5neh1uQUWLXfS1m7uXFlUC1upkYWUPaAGM8QE5pVN4xt52QRus Lvv1NM8uRYZXFYoDzIdDS1JE/KSdl4p/wBvUIDuXuUbn5WM/wTdGFFE5rama+NixA3QM Nowko4YteVHaXZex0ASJeh6UmfSmph3aNerWXMB0Sw3dius2QoEj2o1/S+drpy76b5Vb sQEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date :organization:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=qvFuXaBnj1ePo7o617VpVDcDN3XCDauIecF6j7NDzCY=; b=77GDRqRP7hwUifBX/XND0w+OWtjYP9g9sw44xFOaZo6lvXeIVGGdnUPiOq69gAE/Yz /6z6MeiVF/Vv1UO0VlDp7qu4uSVwhptaySO+/JjtkPLAzjlkmKRsf+xHXTf3T8ifNlau hFJ6LAtaTiAwjqQ/RgfoncY44ISFffpJ570u1+eKFVGFEgKfZTiJ7l5rTa2bODtu3oKx zyRwxAPFeJrPatvsqhwGGI9oTM7nMlDBi5m+V+7uysrx42WKbC42G5xdjfPheFFPH0cT lory5QdQp7xo8z6FAF7DVa36T+B1bxnTpEixnYsYQfGv85r8Au+GHb8w3paC/c3TsGNe 3ZpA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532yHfTgqqs+nL6OfxFUQzRr//w8lhVXgLyBkDuCowvuW2ILNd9M RFRqEDNjjjcpD3vD+Ld8Doi4sxkEV7g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxlyBLowsoEj/2y84IJgQo7qTRYbcXixtchJjSHpQZBV1LSghrMM6Tp6rOZeijHMDeaILoeyw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3188:b0:471:8eee:44d7 with SMTP id i8-20020a056512318800b004718eee44d7mr6822855lfe.606.1650361135583; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 02:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from evergrey (85-76-138-13-nat.elisa-mobile.fi. [85.76.138.13]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v4-20020a196104000000b0046d08b9efe0sm1463006lfb.161.2022.04.19.02.38.54 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 19 Apr 2022 02:38:55 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <87lew7qdtj.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::132; envelope-from=djcb.bulk@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x132.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:288657 Archived-At: On Friday Apr 15 2022, Po Lu wrote: > Morgan Smith writes: > >> I'd like to report that my super key stopped registering. I suspected >> commit 1404e16975 caused it so I did a quick `git revert 1404e16975` >> ontop of 807682de1e and that fixed it. > > Crystal ball says you are using X Windows, and have to put > > remove mod4 = Hyper_L > > in your ~/.Xmodmap file, because GTK doesn't try as hard as regular X11 > Emacs to work around the common kind of virtual modifier > misconfiguration. > > People using X should _never_ use PGTK. The regular X build does a much > better job at supporting that than PGTK ever will. > > It is completely pointless to put up with half-working child frames, > random keyboard-related lossage, random frame placement/resizing > failures, so the actual fix is to delete `--with-pgtk' from your calls > to configure. > > Similarly, people building packages with PGTK enabled that are labeled > "enhanced" are doing their users a disservice. No packager should > enable PGTK by default, and every package should ideally come with a big > disclaimer warning against using PGTK on window systems otherwise > supported by Emacs, since time and experience shows that Emacs generally > does a much better job at their support than GTK. > > Many people are also being mislead by articles on the internet claiming > that PGTK leads to faster redisplay, such as this one: > http://www.cesarolea.com/posts/emacs-native-compile > > That is not true, since regular Emacs with cairo uses more-or-less the > same rendering path as PGTK, except when PGTK runs on Wayland, where it > uses software rendering and does image compositing in software, and is > thus slower than everything else. Scrolling on PGTK is also not as > efficient as XCopyArea requests. > > But the difference in speed even on Wayland is negligible, not easy to > benchmark, and not at all visible to the human eye. Appreciate the efforts on this, but the outcome seems somewhat unsatisfactory, if I understand correctly: - we have the "non-pure" gtk build which supports X (although gtk has a wayland backend, non-pure gtk assumes X) - we have "pure" gtk, which supports X and Wayland, but now it turns out there's a bunch of limitations on X. >From the the time before pgtk got merged, I can't remember any wide discussion of it being wayland-only. Perhaps I misremember. I regularly use both X and Wayland, and having to have two emacsen (and remember to use the right one) just for that seems sub-optimal. Wouldn't it be better to have a single gtk3 backend? For users and developers and distributors? But maybe the problems is small, i.e. perhaps pgtk works fine on X, but doesn't currently implement a handful of things, which we can document? Then users can decide if they can live with that. Kind regards, Dirk. -- Dirk-Jan C. Binnema Helsinki, Finland e:djcb@djcbsoftware.nl gpg: 6987 9CED 1745 9375 0F14 DA98 11DD FEA9 DCC4 A036