From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 15:25:23 +0800 Message-ID: <877d5rty58.fsf@localhost> References: <87leuca7v7.fsf@disroot.org> <87czfopmsd.fsf@gnu.org> <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilpbzlq5.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5560"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jean Louis , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 08 09:26:13 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nyq4y-0001GW-MR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 09:26:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56618 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyq4x-00030y-3q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 03:26:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49068) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyq3d-0002EN-2v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 03:24:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]:40472) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nyq3b-0003LP-CR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 03:24:48 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id z17so17609107pff.7 for ; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 00:24:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=+DRxa0C2phNm+96Ux7nnODi0kFEso9XgMBtJlRnQ54M=; b=dR+GqU8bw+ue0dxokiLRT7Kao2VhXaWaEOQ6h7S1ol0bYYmvJvi9Aqw94pglC8/blN bBJpzEni61vPR/xeIuXPCV5DxIGv8diStozpYS1DvHENRYo963tslcjKwch0Og4BjkeG kQMQCFT3chshS2KpDmkNIG3hFEUKwgl0cdVPMP8cICsBkLe5+QopzPxkXMayiG33cCvb z6lLyhvnT8MsmJmzx1B1A4kmt2EkI88QhguKfqPvJrIBvdufEK0SpkaJdr225DucXFkG vM1ahctIDQ1tUtOfsMoXsZXqc89qKguzJfm2Ubdw7/XHnC6P1HCa0kXdiPQCUMIkR3Zd qzxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=+DRxa0C2phNm+96Ux7nnODi0kFEso9XgMBtJlRnQ54M=; b=Jywo0YYoTH08K85TyWUU3gJNn+qnmT0ZaESw/9KHbTNNWQLrOCOHcfNVfA9yh4/5mc 2gxvJqa9WCVtz05cTjhmeo26G1b09JLrlg+EXMzTxT7rKQhRSfAz7cY8aWtOu5S0nhMI OJEX02PeaEg/PQNKMqlXIvw0JBtTJWw0DuqqaB2j+ZEFBdSCxaYYzbqolEJ7jsAINLs2 LnDgZV2DbYQg+GfoAuhVJ8i2jXtGoR0qReMF/knFCqZQOAL4bCz0mEqDzFwsmn3QGVc5 ChWvaTYIVuoyxeGdJaH+bhIpX/qTG73L+bqLHTeIykXu5Vs6+eHJCyAOuI9EEJqVo+yB agig== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533a5n3w4GdsgVr9fZjDSNdS8GY/WfzUtcMSm/wBcnXUyjpj0vC2 3I9K4p64ihnkpb2HqBeOpLA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwWD+wsSs4JWymPn2XVbFsbGfIu3lFPIx4qtuIVIv1vuXrzIqVnc4S1gDzvIuNOby/wcXcqYQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2b8b:0:b0:3fc:c510:7941 with SMTP id r133-20020a632b8b000000b003fcc5107941mr29540413pgr.47.1654673085865; Wed, 08 Jun 2022 00:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([64.32.23.62]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z14-20020a1709027e8e00b001676dac529asm6821345pla.146.2022.06.08.00.24.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 08 Jun 2022 00:24:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87ilpbzlq5.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::435; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x435.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290905 Archived-At: Tim Cross writes: > Jean Louis writes: > >> * Tim Cross [2022-06-06 15:57]: >>> Org files *are* plain text. This is one of (perhaps the biggest) selling >>> points for org mode. >> >> We may call it "plain text" and problem is not that we can open Org >> files with any editor as plain text, but in formatting. People format >> Org files in such ways that they are not readable, they may not make >> spacing where it would be otherwise required, in other words, plain >> text files do not look nearly as readable as for example RFC text, >> like this one: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1.txt > > Please give me an example of org mode 'not make space where it would be > otherwise required'. Can you provide a single example of org mode > syntax which is not readable in any text editor. There are quite a few > projects on Github/Gitlab which have readme.org files - can you point to > one which cannot be read with a plain text editor? I'd say that Jean made a fair point. In Org, authors may not care as much about, for example, indentation. Especially when the org files are written with org-indent-mode turned on. If you look at https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1.txt, the paragraphs a nicely indented and can be distinguished from the headers. The top-level headers are numbered and can be easily distinguished from the lower-level headers. The paragraph text is also filled appropriately, unlike some Org documents written with truncate-lines set to nil. So, without Emacs, Org files (some of them!) may be harder to read compared to properly formatted ASCII. I am not 100% sure if we need to do anything about this observation. One practical conclusion that can be made is that we might incorporate filling, numbering, and indentation into ox-org.el. Best, Ihor