From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Larger GC thresholds for non-interactive Emacs Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 17:32:05 +0800 Message-ID: <877d52pi3u.fsf@localhost> References: <87bkur72b7.fsf@gnus.org> <874k0j40e7.fsf@gnus.org> <871qvm16he.fsf@gnus.org> <83a6aanm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7yozzj0.fsf@gnus.org> <83k098kg6c.fsf@gnu.org> <8335fvg8kz.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmizrgoi.fsf@localhost> <83zgi3espf.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmizajtv.fsf@localhost> <83y1xneqif.fsf@gnu.org> <87mte3ah08.fsf@localhost> <83r13felor.fsf@gnu.org> <878rplwcp0.fsf@localhost> <83tu89b7pr.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32235"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: owinebar@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, mattiase@acm.org, theophilusx@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 27 11:32:09 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5l6H-00084G-BJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:32:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33378 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5l6G-00026u-6Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 05:32:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55648) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5l57-0001BW-MY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 05:30:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]:46697) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5l55-0003Vj-Tf; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 05:30:57 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id a15so8417576pfv.13; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 02:30:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=I56XAaAeaXqKj0I+YUHhFBfgp/hDP+LY6ylu16bz5RM=; b=VCMTPxFAz7jjjnL3gNwlcwYcKvd3euPw9/dHQXMCSEnjJHKwC6VmMaS4v+P502cVey Y5ya/W+uXgcoaYi8e/r1wsmVEYdDY3cVX52r1EaCa48Xj2XOKZwN9vkTVfxvA+LVEl0n cBlkIZSFgPA2PrbsFEHZPys0jsCRE4Bt1STrOxcp6ZE/B7qj+9OMeXgrmuSIv5W364Xr X2a9BhyeYCoE4K+2i6gC24O//q1hwtgYIj2PFHaQh/mpBLr0VX/DjuUrRHkK5I6lG07l K50nxBDAFE6w0xfPhjaX2t/Nj4diLdIbuh1UTH5TrjvtA+ofE/rgVmuU9Y1aFaJaXhwm VyhA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=I56XAaAeaXqKj0I+YUHhFBfgp/hDP+LY6ylu16bz5RM=; b=kKm3vZP3ALPTvA2BPJ6IqwudQFivmAPPnuVYu0Gwh+RDY4A7v/LuHm3TZPzk9tsVNY 3NIorgG5qcQ3VG9Zqe9AyiLT9N21jyXkjMOGq2kqNNB260xpI9sCtW1TbQUgEmKCtpzg iP5rzm6DKjXBvQk7X9Bj+CORt3VPUZe+mTP48/ewDWfe2WRFtssKRx/BkYxe0Oc55zmq y3dbT4q43WTDKyJLCQoJxb7N1tpVIfJcTDe9oZFEGTTnPLEQ4yenO8xvvFi4kN53L1At QXoV8c3HQG/YGhzjAiCc3nNYr14FKNu/lT0FmnpmD+4fJbmSX6g1wWb9+BK3a9lnHdVq JvZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/6VjOWy9J9pNiwNzpvmkuP7UQC0UfLfZhMzlTu9Xhcx9/sQ5zb o561LoBid2rvsrcMfWD3BwXPYlU5KoRRrQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tEveQklzFU2oTgGFnptS+C8OIshSbj0gGvr7BLY4uewlMkvqycVysPTCWYFbdwt6ycVGa5EA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6946:0:b0:40d:e26:f2e0 with SMTP id e67-20020a636946000000b0040d0e26f2e0mr12405748pgc.118.1656322253000; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 02:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([64.32.23.62]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j21-20020a170902c3d500b00163fa4b7c12sm6724007plj.34.2022.06.27.02.30.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 27 Jun 2022 02:30:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83tu89b7pr.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::429; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x429.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291651 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Then it raises a bigger question. Do we have anything better than email >> archives to archive emacs-devel? > > I don't know of any. What about Mailman 3 frontends like Hyperkitty? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Hyperkitty#Xapian_search_backend >> Note that I can also ask "what if we change debbugs?". Would it mean >> that we should not link to bug#? > > The bug number gives you a quick way of reaching the bug discussion in > the email archives of bug-gnu-emacs, and in debbugs itself. These > will remain available even if we switch away from debbugs as our issue > tracker. So the bug number is definitely a good thing to have in the > logs. Will the commit hash not be available e.g. on savannah? Do you intend to remove the git history alltogether during the switch? >> > And in any case, the trigger for this discussion was the situation >> > where you want to answer questions like "why did Emacs stop using sbrk >> > on GNU/Linux", in which case there's no commit ID to search for. >> >> I implied using git log search to identify the relevant commits. > > That doesn't work well IME. Would you mind walking me though using > that when trying to answer the above question about sbrk? 1. I listed all the commits that mentioned sbrk in the messages using git log, displaying the statistics. (actually, I used Magit) 2. I noticed that some of the commits changed large number of lines and removed sbrk-related staff. In particular, d12e5d003d Add portable dumper 3. I searched https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/?q=linux+sbrk and noticed two candidate threads: Re: When should ralloc.c be used?; and Re: Dumper issue, revisited; invalid realloc/free; 4. Looking through the threads; it appears that the pdumper thread had a lot of occurrences of sbrk word: https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/?q=%22sbrk%22 5. I skimmed through the thread and possibly found relevant message root: https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/20140625212421.GD179@brightrain.aerifal.cx/ It would have been even easier if I had an idea what sbrk does and where its Linux support is supposed to be in the code. >> > These measures don't really work without a gatekeeper. Which we don't >> > have, and probably never will. >> >> I do not think that it is so much of an issue. Your argument would also >> apply, e.g. to using double space between sentences in the commit >> messages or to following log entry format. Yet people do follow these >> conventions because they are documented in CONTRIBUTE file and because >> non-compliant commits are being scolded. Not 100%, but frequently enough >> to make the conventions useful. > > Two spaces between sentences is simple enough that we have several > eyes looking for that and fixing problems post-mortem. And yet we > still have quite a few of them, just try searching in the Emacs tree. > Conventions that are harder to spot are followed even less. > > As a matter of fact, I have hard time making sure each commit that has > a bug number mentions that number in the commit log message. On Org side, I do not find tracking such things too difficult. Probably due to lesser volume of commits. Note that things like double space, or even bug number checks could be automated. For example, one can write a make target that checks recent commit messages to follow specific rules. Best, Ihor