From: Yoni Rabkin <yoni@rabkins.net>
To: Akib Azmain Turja <akib@disroot.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, bozhidar@batsov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs packages, GitHub and software freedom
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 14:48:27 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <877d4q2i2s.fsf@rabkins.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87h73u2k5u.fsf@disroot.org> (Akib Azmain Turja's message of "Thu, 07 Jul 2022 00:03:25 +0600")
Akib Azmain Turja <akib@disroot.org> writes:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> From: Akib Azmain Turja <akib@disroot.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 22:17:37 +0600
>>>
>>> "Bozhidar Batsov" <bozhidar@batsov.dev> writes:
>>>
>>> > I think that's a very binary view of GitHub - it might be non-free,
>>> > but given the huge community it has amassed, it's almost suicidal for
>>> > projects to leave it, as they'd be reducing their contributor-base
>>> > significantly. Projects that are hosted outside of GitHub get way
>>> > less contributions and I don't think the Emacs users would benefit
>>> > from this. I know that the people in FSF care a lot about freedom, but
>>> > I care more about building the best Emacs packages possible, even I
>>> > have to make some ideological compromises from time to time.
>>>
>>> This looks similar to saying, "It's suicidal to not use Copilot, because
>>> without it you have to do the programming yourself and decrease your
>>> productivity."
>>>
>>> Emacs, GCC, Guix, EMMS and many other projects use Savannah, and there's
>>> thousands of other popular projects, including some of the most
>>> successful ones, that are not using GitHub. Are they falling behind?
>>>
>>> Your statement is contradicting your own blog post: "Firefox is the Only
>>> Alternative".[1]
>>>
>>> However, I must agree that projects on GitHub gets more activity. But
>>> that's because most of the developers use (i.e. used by) that. And
>>> that's why more people join GitHub, they are forced. We must break this
>>> cycle.
>>>
>>> > Love it or hate it, GitHub helped a lot for the revival of the Emacs
>>> > package ecosystem. Especially when you compare this to the days of
>>> > EmacsWiki and SourceForge.
>>>
>>> Just like saying, "Windows has made using a computer easy, so I won't
>>> discourage people from using it."
>>>
>>> > I wouldn't take any steps to discourage package maintainers from
>>> > using it.
>>>
>>> This way you are just worsening the situation. (But you obviously have
>>> the freedom to do that.) To increase the "contributor-base" outside
>>> GitHub, we have to convince maintainers to move away from GitHub.
>>
>> Guys, this is quickly becoming off topic here. Although the Subject
>> says "Emacs packages", the discussion has long ago ceased to be about
>> that, and you are now discussing GitHub, SourceForge, Savannah
>> hosting, etc. Would you mind taking this to emacs-tangents?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Sorry for that. But the only thing I ask in this thread is what to do
> with GNU ELPA packages on unethical GitHub? It's considered
> unacceptable for hosting any free software (including GNU software) by
> the Free Software Foundation.
Exactly, which is why I answered about Emms... an Emacs package. Is
there a mailing list to discuss the larger Emacs package world, as
opposed to Emacs proper?
--
"Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-07-06 18:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-07-06 13:32 Emacs packages, GitHub and software freedom Akib Azmain Turja
2022-07-06 13:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-07-06 13:58 ` Yoni Rabkin
2022-07-06 14:29 ` Gerry Agbobada
2022-07-06 14:33 ` Bozhidar Batsov
2022-07-06 16:17 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-07-06 16:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-06 18:03 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-07-06 18:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-06 18:48 ` Yoni Rabkin [this message]
2022-07-06 19:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-06 19:28 ` Yoni Rabkin
2022-07-06 19:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-08 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-08 8:11 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-07-08 8:18 ` Po Lu
2022-07-08 10:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-06 15:22 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-07-06 20:52 ` Tim Cross
2022-07-06 22:31 ` Yoni Rabkin
2022-07-08 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=877d4q2i2s.fsf@rabkins.net \
--to=yoni@rabkins.net \
--cc=akib@disroot.org \
--cc=bozhidar@batsov.dev \
--cc=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).