From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 16:18:30 +0800 Message-ID: <877cnc302x.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f43123d7dee59461@heytings.org> <835y2xo1a5.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f4312391906f6101@heytings.org> <831qdlo084.fsf@gnu.org> <83msw8n43r.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27613"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Stefan Kangas , gregory@heytings.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 24 10:20:01 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCdt-0006y2-0R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 10:20:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCcp-0004L6-Ht; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:18:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCcl-0004Kf-29 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:18:51 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.185.33]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvCci-0006gJ-0o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:18:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1698135524; bh=GrBSGVMGg/Kl81Re4+X91MJA1GT9QQ8GgOi5SRstG7I=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=KWyNk05j0k9FgZm3jfBK1GaRSljkcLlu57g67RnHB3t9W4a9h1VzbMWNSLw/79TmtKxQ1JVO7VKFVIozDth43Lj7tJ+6QCoRw/lZAM8fEeUFSA9i5ZN4EoEumpYbHEGsPa17mP2DNKr2hwA2K8hPXAZAYt3NaeO6WrleSYvgL1PrrgZwUHmJFxC/ho7tqZv2ksGo+V3f1SDbsUpCd2lhoo+3yytdMRZnDbJivJA+dyhJRMAk5jYipHRMK6GFJC7nPKywEcWBgN8MfimOETSciGWvkfcYjDW1URpT4drq2GCQhcqb6cl5YlMlNxg4gQFsexjBJYnV2PbEKcSUlwm8RQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1698135524; bh=SKBETDEIcCaCwgZCqMl1K3gkPp6RpS0GolUrElDUXh0=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=IXHre7G0h5ZgNUalYPFQozWwEyrEb2yLzOnzdB3Gazkc1kybH2b9y8FnbN6FwiGwB3JoEhpjXu53OkHjoxp5CUzP4E5/FLBhPlJzvq9AyVt/tA6AZ6yFFB5p/DHif+MTcfX+TDldSoqBFRPUpO2zlbdUu1rNZBxEYWtdjEnVKRCOotF2DMzN0+u11hI6bqklHYdCgqIHdbWoxPZuqtsdheRrohd4U2Ty1UC5yV0B8bABacYy+G6UNIfxuGaDkuBBtxe5puLvRyZV7YCEzyPDTrPjODSbhiLaT/6AfqQNGPPpHRAKgk15+RkezQOV/S3ihB81L9lxpAiDf1i2kd5bOg== X-YMail-OSG: UYuKy1MVM1nfgmntric94_61lbG6mKWzdpDQNUbtmMuFM70PKVEdBgEqE9lEn6B .DkcwEnW6J3Sdj0rimXCg3z7FNOGXqyLhgssQ.Yt2JqOZAI5mpPe8gNEgI9vcR0IqvN8XSXfxpqg aFczDsh9cKgd2CVvsPe01UMVfftc.ygNNUyKdGPk_CcwcZxw8rKJ29PhUzv8JP_09gzPJfP2teMO TaawFaoHC4.ffF5IrtcT98pICcSpnSJTr216IMDx6iYkqZtvXTtQJ.IpmRuC1MHQ.7rbgFifBrbO 9IsApG2bDf.nj.Lgyl_UZm5u.8lkQzLjgZlgtaZfegXzTbZd10yhLsm6_5hItdb48LO_32jqtF4x vtWzmoh60IKBeYcfssxL4gv8cXr3Z2u_IGzALG.Saux0UcmVaTnLqoKROoNLaZzyiZ0Y41sObXHQ 9qCAEqpp2ySX3K9nCCufBkglb3MY1h8CNs5ZOZcacN7x8tOZw0PdcVJGgWtuN.mE3qdPqfSCn1U0 WKr4M6BwpaOPmnCsa4rqPi_7YXNTodLDw6blQDnjWFQuvGzTkeb4pd0espualX8yNNif8y2BcdeL K4o6NO65LGEh85ynXpp8b5B7IqrrDcyWqiy4anBb1lZhT1Sa7PbqlUbdq.lzRkYuCQu7ji0SLgru jvFm9suFJnpbyVxt5yjKAQKyC0SkMaP15fQvrzdtfVMm_UC.ZpGDoGj.cqXfvLBpFsDnioKUIVmn .m6pH8KyQhumpGFscJKbN9AlTy_2ATiYIeJFgrFVD5JfUQWiu3d05LKw5FgivdyEamUNpmU7bet2 CKIb952P3z4n9mOzQ01quNxs8mr6LVDivY5.ZBsoIt X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 1883c02d-7ce3-41a8-84d1-357befdba552 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 08:18:44 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-57f7997989-gt6tf (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3d88d4934c0f9a7e1f23a5c0be5f7bf0; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 08:18:38 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83msw8n43r.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 24 Oct 2023 05:31:20 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21797 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.33; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311753 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Kangas >> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:11:06 -0700 >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> > Preloading unnecessary stuff is a slippery slope that once we start >> > there's no way of knowing where we end. So let's not. >> >> AFAIK, the main drawback is increased memory consumption. The main >> benefit is that Emacs starts faster. >> >> Are there any other important considerations? > > Introduction of symbols that are not needed. Also, some packages > modify the run-time environment when they load. And the pure space or W32 dumped_heap occupied increases as more files are preloaded. Until such time as they are removed, this remains an important factor in deciding what to load.