From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:54:11 +0200 Message-ID: <877cnblxdo.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f43123d7dee59461@heytings.org> <835y2xo1a5.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f4312391906f6101@heytings.org> <831qdlo084.fsf@gnu.org> <83edhkmfax.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5s8kocd.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25462"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:D0cNOLFvmrwjdc/2+FYH3v5hriY= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 24 20:22:42 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvM38-0006Pf-KX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 20:22:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvM22-0005xY-QJ; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:21:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvLbl-0005qW-7B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:54:25 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvLbj-00007n-LM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 13:54:24 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvLbh-0008r4-2N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:54:21 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 14:21:33 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311815 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > E.g., my production session loads no less than 214 packages > right when it starts. Why would we do that when everything > works without it? What kind of problem are we trying to > solve here? I see no problem. We are trying to understand why guys grep the source and traces this huge software component down to individual instances of its use, and like, "hey, can we remove that?". Gonna do that to those other 213 packages as well? So let me ask, what is the special attention to cl-lib? To me it looks like - not saying it is like that - ideology, if you don't like CL maybe you see cl-lib like some infiltration from CL? And for this reason don't like it? Well, if so, sorry to say guys, but you lost the battle then! We are not getting rid of this infiltration. Might and Glory to Elisp(cl)! :P -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal