From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit-Claudel?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 13:37:39 -0400 Message-ID: <87788f91-e086-7bcf-4ded-47fac7ccf3e9@gmail.com> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <877ejxsm18.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87mustqugw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536428311 5144 195.159.176.226 (8 Sep 2018 17:38:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 17:38:31 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: hw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 08 19:38:27 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyhBh-0001D1-3j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 19:38:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43759 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyhDk-0005j3-Fj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:40:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35927) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyhCV-0004TN-GF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:39:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyhB0-0004sn-8d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:37:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]:33366) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyhB0-0004sb-2B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:37:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id i4-v6so14334904uak.0 for ; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:37:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4ZuhSSBqWJTLn7gVr4M940MpT/fAdZdS3nY2EwkpRFs=; b=ertKKrUPevYgT8pZQk7baG3DOAiH3mYAHPha88U/9+z56eJNBij2VpTS2jzkmwpA88 dXOl2ATgPCwbHG+FBHAGdEpfksvLniEqw/kXR5QIGGa6oCrB2gXPTwc3BasmrooBUzau Zvmaum24/KF3thE03K3VIxNfnjyn0ojfTiVg5ewxWpku8z2u5zoNs17pCbXaOmq92xDD CaRsqbEf9QPUm2bapjxMV3awpBVBLQImLuRrc4ZVcvWvmkQ/Ti5X5gDy1pVysZtVSxTh FQx3tYX6I7v/ChRhQoaGySFTrNdBFoZDvrHYz12UkxG/jd2YVlMc72aMJ0km/HSwQ9Pd HrjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4ZuhSSBqWJTLn7gVr4M940MpT/fAdZdS3nY2EwkpRFs=; b=eZQ6itjSx8l81p3OJEUsIL9CapQbQHG5PPT06ZNHqFekJA+/NQJyGSlVM1VLkJhm4N QDw5r8p/2DZG2gGBzfjSTGW4G74JEI+y4UrLXiN4O0d7nwh+denAg9R2i5QtqOdOGUxO H5ILAwkdIHxW1rVdvTx6G7wd69N7MbBHLXnF+Egp3hEsHgDQg6WFpdr5PBzJK8lYl81d IGD+gCbjyidJQTDNoXHnBErBnfFAimA30A1A/fwyK2aEW28V0SutQhAunVy4wYS2oZk7 ASMki9FpfAN5LDKSiDcNCJFgu8Leae9efSt0HIZ7YIZsgRt+CGsF96xfMhz7RfI4CJZc 4gIg== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51CFzetBFHTQLdu4ewnOxkiaFSJT7CCOSb4uDxhCbX2pmgdh2RHc PD9yjCeL9rREXM0MxPVu0aKLW83O X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbxpXJfRjpR59XhKcxehPSOFBTDoLXm1uNks3pdvnoaockpdGSGVsJUcKcj6IJI5w2Si2gA4A== X-Received: by 2002:ab0:51ac:: with SMTP id g41-v6mr4730526uaa.155.1536428261381; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?IPv6:2601:184:4180:66e7:cc48:a1aa:dc04:6757? ([2601:184:4180:66e7:cc48:a1aa:dc04:6757]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b130-v6sm1992403vsd.17.2018.09.08.10.37.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 08 Sep 2018 10:37:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87mustqugw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Content-Language: en-GB X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::934 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229504 Archived-At: On 2018-09-07 10:39, hw wrote: >> On 2018-09-07 05:18, hw wrote: >>> When a selection is active, why would anyone assume that typing >>> an arbitrary letter is supposed to replace the entire selection, >>> or to disable it? >> Out of experience, mostly. When almost every other program you >> use besides Emacs behaves that way, it's easy to assume that Emacs >> will behave the same way. > It's not my experience because when I want a selection deleted, I > delete it. If it gets deleted otherwise, that's a mistake or maybe > even a bug when no undo is available. You seem to be conflating experience and desirable behavior. > I call it a design flaw because if whoever made it this way had > given any thought to it, it would at least be customizable Fortunately, some of those who "made it that way" did think about it :) For example, Microsoft Word has an option called "Typing Replaces Selected Text." Unfortunately, I couldn't find a similar setting in OpenOffice, nor in LibreOffice. Gtk entries and textviews do not seem to provide a similar setting, either, but I wouldn't assume that they didn't give any thought to it. > Software supporting users in making mistakes and making the mistakes > even worse suffers from design flaws unless doing so is the very > purpose of the software. I'm having trouble following the reasoning. > I suspect that one important reason for the dangerous and careless > dealing with selections you find in many other programs is that the > developers couldn't be bothered to find a better way. I understand that feeling, but I don't see much to support it. From the same observations, you could just as well conclude that no one cared enough about the behavior offered by Emacs to send patches to OpenOffice, Gtk, or many of the other libre IDEs and text editors.