From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Mode_switch in Emacs Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:43:14 +0200 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <8764qaonfu.fsf@jurta.org> References: <200511222150.54248.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200511261846.25153.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <87zmnq3qhh.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <200511272339.02509.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <87acfp4itm.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <87d5kkfrkm.fsf@jurta.org> <87mzjo2vvn.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1133322396 19772 80.91.229.2 (30 Nov 2005 03:46:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:46:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, pogonyshev@gmx.net Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 30 04:46:35 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhIu8-0000FM-7g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 04:45:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhIu7-0003Bw-4j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:45:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EhIr4-0001KT-78 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:42:02 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EhIr2-0001JN-1R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:42:01 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhIr1-0001JC-PL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:41:59 -0500 Original-Received: from [194.126.101.111] (helo=mail.neti.ee) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EhIr1-0008FU-EL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:41:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.neti.ee (80-235-34-14-dsl.mus.estpak.ee [80.235.34.14]) by Relayhost1.neti.ee (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC1AD16EF; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 05:42:12 +0200 (EET) Original-To: Stefan Monnier In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:24:48 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110004 (No Gnus v0.4) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-2.2.1 (20041222) (Debian) at neti.ee X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:46800 Archived-At: >> I see no reason to activate both XIM russian layout and LEIM russian >> input method in Emacs. > > I hope we indeed all agree on this one ;-) > > Tho now that you mention it, I'm wondering: how do people deal with the > situation where their keyboard is cyrillic and they want to use one of > Emacs's input methods (which are all based on latin chars)? All Cyrillic keyboards have Latin chars too, i.e. each of the most physical keys has two labels: one for a Latin character, and one for a Cyrillic character. So after switching XIM to a Latin layout (not necessarily English, any Latin-based language layout will work) it is possible to use Emacs's input methods on Cyrillic keyboards. >> Somewhere =F3-=C3 may be preferable to C-w, but at least in Emacs I th= ink >> interpreting =F3-=C3 as C-w is more natural. However, this is still n= ot >> very useful in Emacs because it will enable only key sequences with >> control/meta modifiers, but not with raw letters. I.e. what good is >> to process =F3-=C3 as C-w, if `C-x b' will produce useless `C-x =C9'? > > That's a very good point indeed. It basically means we should > postpone the decision whether to translate b into =C9 to much later. This would be nice. Ideally, all keys should be translated except self-inserting keys. I.e. this translation should be opposite to LEIM input methods: LEIM input methods translate self-inserting ASCII characters to the target language, but with an active non-Latin XIM layout, Emacs should translate non-ASCII components of non-self-inser= ting key combinations to their ASCII equivalents. > Now how does all the above look in the case of XIM input methods that m= ap > multi-key sequences to chars (typically for asian scripts)? I guess this may not work with other XIM input methods. So instead of blindly converting non-ASCII characters to ASCII for all XIM input method= s, perhaps Emacs should use a new variable with "non-ASCII to ASCII" mapping= s. --=20 Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/