From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The bug tracker...again Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:05:10 -0400 Message-ID: <8762lp43gp.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <85vctujlsx.fsf@iznogoud.viz> <4E52AAE1.5080503@dogan.se> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1314043526 22474 80.91.229.12 (22 Aug 2011 20:05:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 20:05:26 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 22 22:05:22 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QvakK-0003B1-Eb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 22:05:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47828 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvakJ-0006nO-JK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:05:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:49369) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvakG-0006nH-GN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:05:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvakF-0006a1-8f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:05:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com ([209.85.216.176]:51695) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvakF-0006Zu-6F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:05:15 -0400 Original-Received: by qyk7 with SMTP id 7so2954745qyk.0 for ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:05:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:from:to:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=AoOTdXHebNplvuUbLbM8SDgAkXbEEFqtWlbzmeLPGW0=; b=QuYyXiVBuR0pYx3pmlJq6dx4ziCjPaCUw21mQzs0cthN2ooZhd/xzaVLeXjB9tFmWf W0iaB18nkhLC0bh+D6nqhdQ/nYYZQPc4ZoN9WteuSx73rJB27Pmgy5Re79B41PAoA6df W8LoYHgyvQsDU5WFqleyJtkAIZ2L9i9kWEl5M= Original-Received: by 10.229.78.159 with SMTP id l31mr1636807qck.221.1314043512868; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from floss (cpe-66-65-49-129.nyc.res.rr.com [66.65.49.129]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b3sm1115386qcu.40.2011.08.22.13.05.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:05:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E52AAE1.5080503@dogan.se> (Deniz Dogan's message of "Mon, 22 Aug 2011 21:15:45 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.216.176 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:143520 Archived-At: Deniz Dogan writes: >On 2011-08-20 01:12, Richard Stallman wrote: >Has anything changed since the last (major) discussion about the bug >tracker that Emacs uses? > >For reference: >http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-01/msg00269.html I don't know, but this statement by Richard... "If we are to use a bug tracker, it must allow people to do everything thru email if they wish to, and must make that mode convenient." [1] ...might be inaccurate or incomplete. I'm not sure if Richard meant email per se, or merely that bug-reporting must be possible from within Emacs, i.e., without switching to a separate web-browsing program. If that's the *real* requirement, then any bug tracker with a decent network API would probably work, because we could teach Emacs to speak that API for reporting new bugs. Then M-x report-emacs-bug could do two things: a) It could mention a URL where the user could report the bug using some separate web browser program, if she wants to, *or* b) If the user wants to stay in Emacs, then Emacs could encourage a high-quality bug report by offering a form-like interface (as Eric mentions is important [2]), instead of a lightly-structured email. Note that all of the above is about *initially reporting* the bug. There's also the question of interacting with *existing* bug reports via email, after they're filed. This is something a number of modern bug trackers support. But the UI for interacting with an existing bug report by email is a very different question from the UI for initially filing the report. Using an email stream to receive news of, and react to, updates to existing bug reports is not so hard. Whereas prompting our users to enter *new* bug reports via email is kind of silly. Anyway, there's no reason the one has to infect the other. So I don't know exactly what Richard was asserting, but my guess is if Emacs offered a form for filing new reports -- and form-based *or* email-based interaction with existing reports -- that'd meet his needs. (If he really meant everything must be by email, I'd be curious what the justification is, and would suspect that he has not thought through his use case carefully.) I've had good experiences with Redmine as a bug tracker, by the way. I think it offers all the features described above. I do not have time to help with any migration, however. -Karl [1] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-01/msg00364.html [2] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-01/msg00269.html