From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs 23.4 Updated Windows Binaries published Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 00:33:00 +0900 Message-ID: <8762fkyo2b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <4F2EAF8E.3010106@alice.it> <83d39tcjdx.fsf@gnu.org> <87haz4zksa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fweozgbu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87d39szb88.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328542417 12896 80.91.229.3 (6 Feb 2012 15:33:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 15:33:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, "Richard M. Stallman" , Angelo Graziosi To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 06 16:33:33 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQZL-0006hz-EU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:33:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52546 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQZI-00073X-Dv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:33:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQZC-00073I-57 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:33:22 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQZ2-0007eT-HN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:33:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:43905) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuQYx-0007ce-Cr; Mon, 06 Feb 2012 10:33:03 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5C49707AB; Tue, 7 Feb 2012 00:33:00 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 19BD61A282A; Tue, 7 Feb 2012 00:33:00 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta31) "ginger" e6b5c49f9e13 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148265 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: > Just what I said above. But the answer from Richard that Paul just > pointed to (http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=10656#23) is > very clear. Clear as mud. What you are missing is that Richard responded to a fragment of Paul's post which was arguably misleading. Paul wrote "ship executables", but Richard's reply does *not* apply to "shipping" via the Internet. See below. > In fact I think it confirm that sources can be elsewhere. That's wishful thinking, at best. No, in this case, where we are talking about distributing via an Internet server, the sources have to be in the same place as the object. The GPL, section 6(d), is crystal clear on that point. There are three exceptions: 6(b), 6(c), and 6(e). None applies to the situation we are discussing. 6(b) requires that you *provide physical media* (eg, a CD-ROM) plus a *written guarantee* that the sources exist in a particular place; Emacs is clearly not going to restrict itself to that. Section 6(c) does not apply to mass distribution; it specifically says "only occasionally" (eg, making a copy of Emacs as a birthday present for your sister). Further, to invoke 6(c) you must have received your copy under 6(b), which certainly is not the case for Emacs and GnuTLS. 6(e) requires use of a peer-to-peer protocol, which is obviously unsuitable as the primary source of a mass distribution of Emacs. > There could be a DOI-like pointer for exactly those sources used. C'mon, Lennart, I wasn't born yesterday. Of course I figured that out already. That's so obvious even a U.S. Patent Office examiner would refuse to pass it. You are *still* missing the point. Did you miss Eli's recent post asking somebody to remove version numbers of 3rd party libraries used by the Windows binary distribution? Updating that DOI is a PITA and mistake-prone, and it's a nasty mistake to make because *any small mistake at all* because it puts you in technical violation of your license (but only if you distribute binaries only; if you distribute the source too, typos in the README are merely typos). Probably nobody will sue you, just ask you to fix it, but you will definitely get a rep as one who disrespects licenses. > An easier way is perhaps to clone the sources to a new place in the > repository (or another repository). Technically easier, yes; GPL-compliant, arguably not. Clause 6(d) requires "equivalent copying services"; if the object is in a tarball, one could argue that requiring tarball users to install Bazaar is not equivalent. In practice, the FSF might not go after somebody who did that, as clearly the "preferred form of source for development" is a clone of the DVCS repo. On the other hand, they might very well ask you to provide the tarball, too. And if the VCS were BitKeeper or Visual Source Safe, they probably *would* go after you.