From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Another iteration on the Emacs website Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:55:47 +0100 Message-ID: <876104kn30.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <87h9jpi890.fsf@petton.fr> <20151212001515.GD3192@boo.workgroup> <83bn9w6s46.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1449914175 11496 80.91.229.3 (12 Dec 2015 09:56:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 09:56:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Random832 , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 12 10:56:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a7guT-0001tL-Ny for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:56:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51192 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7guS-0006og-UW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 04:56:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43941) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7gu8-0006kV-UN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 04:55:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7gu7-0000TB-6L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 04:55:52 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42796) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7gu4-0000Pp-Ph; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 04:55:48 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56615 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1a7gu4-0004O0-3E; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 04:55:48 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 97446DF969; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:55:47 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <83bn9w6s46.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 12 Dec 2015 09:30:49 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196162 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Random832 >> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 20:14:18 -0500 >> >> Xue Fuqiao writes: >> >> > On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 8:15 AM, Gregor Zattler wrote: >> > >> >> [2] The only other projects of similar age which come to >> >> (my) mind are the X Window System and the TeX familiy of >> >> programs. >> > >> > Maybe you forgot some GNU projects, like Hurd, glibc, Bash, GCC, GDB, >> > Octave, and Texinfo. >> >> Depends on what you mean by similar age. >> >> 1978 TeX >> 1983 AMS-TeX >> 1984 X >> 1984 Emacs >> 1985 LaTeX >> 1986 GDB >> 1987 GCC >> 1988 glibc >> 1989 Bash >> 1990 Hurd >> 1992 Octave ("conceived" 1988) > > Emacs started the GNU project, "Emacs" preceded the GNU project. The Gosling Emacs rat-out prompted Richard to write the GPL and sketch out the definition and needs for GNU. The Emacs code base was rewritten to be free of third-party copyrights and then restarted as GNU Emacs. > so it's a small wonder it predates any other GNU package. Also, first > versions of GCC and GDB were written by Richard, which is another > reason why they came after Emacs. The main reason is that they were written as components for the GNU project whereas Emacs was written as a tool for editing. The original Emacs was free software but not copylefted, and that backfired. Once copyleft was created and there was a formal definition of free software, there was an incentive for creating a whole cohesive system relying on copyleft protection for seminal parts and assembled with outside components also providing the four software freedoms even if not the copyleft's mechanism protecting them. -- David Kastrup