From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:36:49 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <875zz54l8u.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM> <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180912131602.GA5582@ACM> <87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM> <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org> <874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <205df9be-2e5c-4cc4-a13a-7c80eb63bedc@default> <87in363zgq.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537105834 10540 195.159.176.226 (16 Sep 2018 13:50:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 13:50:34 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, Joost Kremers , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams , Phillip Lord To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 16 15:50:29 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XRR-0002Z9-Ol for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:50:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59142 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XTY-0001pe-FQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:52:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46523) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XSP-0001pM-FP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:51:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XSO-0003Cp-E2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:51:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5301::7]:21299) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XSM-00038B-FD; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:51:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1537105880; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=AnrWQIq7dpUen6IO843vZzvdCFm07JldbQBUWKy0UmA=; b=V7W4UHf2MqxovD2FwQJXTro0FJHFquU39V4etgfbl4lPTS7UaPJPIneSf5RlBw9QhT uCbV9VtdYBV4LxITaxmHVoHWGwOOqr2lQc5PPKc2gnjQi/teu9HDJlyHkgXMksZzmyb/ ESnPcng1aRzfoumbeAP0xzukYBvSOS6AhWgLgZz5KQsrgGWkRETtgbnyhKiCyKbomHOF 0GWGbjKoUnEJ2G7OwKtwS10AMustEKHbmUyucXXgp0EYmSqUD7/J5Rerp5WMFLHuBvNv kVFPhalWqueUPglbwfGG4reTljZTNYETrJC7iSZoBacCuW7Jja2B6Vmj7GYGMFdXkkKV kZ0A== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.1 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id 20bdb7u8GDow6Zz (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:50:58 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XRx-0001jo-N1; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:50:57 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Yuri Khan's message of "Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:06:09 +0700") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::7 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229844 Archived-At: Yuri Khan writes: > On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 10:15 AM hw wrote: > >> In joe, you make a selection by pressing C-k b to mark the beginning and >> C-k k to mark the end of the selection. The selection is called a block >> in joe. It is highlighted. You can change it any time by setting the >> marks again. >> >> Now you can copy the block with C-k c, meaning the whole block is >> inserted at point, and the copy is the new selection. The beginning and >> the end of a block (selection) can both be off screen. > > I recognize this as the WordStar block/region/selection model. Yes, I, > too, was quite used to it in my Turbo Pascal years (late =E2=80=9990s). L= ater, > I migrated to Windows and got used to its CUA-like model. Yes, joe is "wordstarlike". You can start it with different names to get different key bindings, though, like jmacs is like Emacs. > [...] > I think it is instructive to compare a few selection/region/block > models, all of which have been quite successful. ,---- [ joe ] | New ways of selecting regions | The classic way is to hit ^K B at the beginning and ^K K at the | end. These set pointers called markb and markk. Once these are set | you can jump to markb with Esc B and jump to markk with Esc K. |=20 | New way: hit Ctrl-Right Arrow to start selecting rightward. Each `---- The new ways refer to keys that don't work in a terminal unless you manage to somehow configure them. With mouse support, you use the mouse to select. There seems to be more to it because it seems that both pointers can be remembered, and operations on a block are not possible when there is no block highlighted. --- This also allows moving blocks, something that Emacs can't do. Also noteworthy: ,---- | How do I deselect a highlighted region? | After you are finished with some region operations, you can just | leave the highlighting on if you don=C2=B4t mind it (but don=C2=B4= t acciden=E2=80=90 | tally hit ^K Y). If it really bothers you, however, just hit ^K B | ^K K, to turn the highlighting off. |=20 | Beginning with JOE 4.2, you can hit ^C to cancel the region selec= =E2=80=90 | tion. `---- > * WordStar model: Block is delimited by two markers, and is > highlighted. (Some implementations allow toggling the highlight; when > highlight is off, markers are preserved but block commands are not > available.) Moving the cursor or typing text does not affect block > markers (except to adjust their positions to accommodate length > changes). Basic block operations are: copy to point, move to point, > delete, write to file, read from file. (The latter inserts the > contents of the file at point and puts block markers around it.) + move block I like that. > * Brief model: Block is delimited by mark and point (like in Emacs). > Pressing Alt+A starts selecting the corresponding type of block (which > is highlighted); pressing the same key again removes the highlight. > When selecting, newly typed text is inserted normally at point. Block > operations are: cut, copy, paste, delete, write to file. When no block > is highlighted, these act on the current line. > > * Windows model: Selection is defined by two positions, one of which > is at point. Unshifted cursor movement cancels the selection, shifted > cursor movement extends or shrinks it, text insertion replaces the > selected text, and both Backspace and Delete delete the selected text. > Selection operations are cut, copy, paste, and delete; when there is > no selection, cut and copy are disabled, and Backspace and Delete act > on one character backward and forward, respectively. There are also multiple selections which you can usually make by holding control and clicking on something with the trackball to include it into a selection. I'm not sure if there is a version of that which works with text. The wordstar model could work with multiple selections.