From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs i18n Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:02:59 +0200 Organization: LINKOV.NET Message-ID: <875zs6sowc.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <87o97aq6gz.fsf@jidanni.org> <87tvgoud56.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o96wk2mi.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1hjfvjd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871s3p0zdz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83h8ckezyt.fsf@gnu.org> <87h8cjspc0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <29a53a39-fa50-1e94-9420-a3ea1250aa44@gmail.com> <87r2azq478.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o963s4gx.fsf@gnu.org> <87va09ckym.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83sgvdndt0.fsf@gnu.org> <8736ncgcnm.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <834l7roccc.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="188964"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, brandelune@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 25 22:35:53 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h8XG5-000n1u-Cy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 22:35:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48872 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h8XG4-0001Ng-CG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:35:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42207) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h8XDa-0008U8-El for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:33:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h8XDZ-0003PQ-B9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:33:18 -0400 Original-Received: from quail.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.151]:2037) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h8XDW-0003JP-3G; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:33:15 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Original-Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E459F141B07; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 21:33:10 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-3-137.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.3.137]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 390BD1416AF; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 21:33:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a57.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.2); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 21:33:10 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Robust-Soft: 439e1dd47aafa53e_1553549590747_1575604899 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1553549590747:4086930195 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1553549590746 Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B331B8004D; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:33:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=linkov.net; bh=5la3/Z H4zCT0HujjX17SxklImFU=; b=Xe0BILvnkv6WQMi9tLWynuMv+qMSPw95ZYh8uA mBhuq709Gmdlqzb9k4VdFpz2AkaQBs/XsJYLpJXlD5jJ8pNsn/yQXhztKIIkoKl+ mZ/acW3AgKW56eIqSPZ3KpXQeee/RGRSBcrOqKwHsVwAfK4K0VobijqqtFUZFKZU XOpHY= Original-Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-108-250.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.108.250]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a57.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C18F880051; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 14:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a57 In-Reply-To: <834l7roccc.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 25 Mar 2019 05:35:31 +0200") X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedutddrjeekgdduheduucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhofhffjgfkfgggtgfgsehtkeertddtredunecuhfhrohhmpefluhhrihcunfhinhhkohhvuceojhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvtheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgnhhurdhorhhgnecukfhppeeluddruddvledruddtkedrvdehtdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlrdhjuhhrthgrrdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepledurdduvdelrddutdekrddvhedtpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpefluhhrihcunfhinhhkohhvuceojhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvtheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhurhhisehlihhnkhhovhdrnhgvthdpnhhrtghpthhtohepvghlihiisehgnhhurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 23.83.209.151 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:234729 Archived-At: >> > But since we don't yet have ngettext, we cannot yet use this >> > paradigm. I thought by "from now on" you literally meant from now; >> > did I misunderstand? >> >> Yes, literally. After the patch from >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-03/msg00586.html >> is pushed to master, ngettext is available to use for pluralization. > > That's changing history. When you asked to read past discussions, I did it, and among all opinions the most encouraging were the wise words of Fran=E7ois Pinard: "Yet, when it is affordable to do so, and to spare the overall effort, it is often a good thing to aim in directions which have less chance t= o lead into dead ends, from which we might later have to backtrack from. Yet, dead ends are not always technical, so sometimes, not always, dea= d ends might be more fruitful than no road at all. It is surely a fine = art, being able to choose the best roads, considering all issues. My opinion is, when we are lacking of volunteer time, that the best ro= ad is the one having the least steps in it, and this often means that backtr= acking should be avoided. Best is trying to do things the right way, even if= not everything gets done at once. So steps accumulate constructively over= time." I hope that starting with a small step of adding ngettext to provide the correct plurals for English words would lead in the right direction while avoiding the danger of backtracking from dead ends.