From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Matthias Meulien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Write a new package" culture instead of patches? Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 23:51:02 +0200 Message-ID: <875zcui62h.fsf@gmail.com> References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <405FCFAB-30E4-4F98-81DA-3B09933E86D0@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="108524"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: rms@gnu.org, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , pcr910303@icloud.com, Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 17 23:53:05 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaRDV-000S5Z-9t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 23:53:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40836 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaRDU-0008Go-AV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 17:53:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33090) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaRC1-0007EN-7c for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 17:51:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::336]:54572) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaRBx-0003bs-5S; Sun, 17 May 2020 17:51:32 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id h4so7391488wmb.4; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:51:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Ay2OGI7mw3UeVh1Ba5lkYWov6VsFhYJOisIXGBKKOnA=; b=WIua7yHNn0l1oYjVqJ3p8VY1DtqLfORjOemFLrDqNtc3aqTjA2UylsIkXrBXx9rgp+ iWnVSjLl2N2lisTTzplU9ZbLoDKUwkneO0lmS5f30wkTV7FQmWt2dNN/1uwpXu5ERC1F /ZzL6DEAmIm4zxjF9Twio77lWpNoMZnzqXgip+Liy27UI5gDMTS9wRs82jOhLynhC0gB BPB+8bvQELHy7iPa7UArq2lacsUNnr2N4gqOrmcmJVFDNcaOWzSlJ6slElbXmwjM+B+D +FLjec8vUhdkM5GbmRn41GN7NyS5d3LF4bNM4FySXwQ0NzwrTq0ktnFYf0Y4wpo8RHnO /haw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Ay2OGI7mw3UeVh1Ba5lkYWov6VsFhYJOisIXGBKKOnA=; b=eoerYx2t4HrqJlF5FW+Y4LaEsdebEjbmIHt8zNZAljkzyKxIhrZx5vtvfP3wyeB5O3 Jm8Lb7JBAdZI5FeDgN5CztD/WJ/Do5cIzUTOey5qdfWibVj2K8nZ3NejGCx6iONxlf7T mTKhEmiNzP8a1veaVeIF1BV7FZMtpfWR5p/G6sH+Eh4na21psfL9dOvag8TpOF6VeNvR Fa+3nG7vu/BmWsamuqdzNt8NHwktYBxSqytRCGZF5ygQAew2/r8Mv6HdnbVIl+n8VP9f JddZKw7qgiLtYVAANhRX5x0UbiggjXJiC2eVEKkDYlvfLV9PGLEEP0LiH/0PByfzh/Yw qBag== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5327JX14yycdYFLEYG47mxi2Ustyq8A2qQk/JrxC1IF117FuLKIT kp1eE8qBL4AffDs7JMQYd00= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxCXEWpAlAjUk5sH24ravEEMsCXenSybDopsNdyhsTC5fV8valwmbVqrY/2eqTFJ3tJVa1phQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:231a:: with SMTP id 26mr16656740wmo.59.1589752286189; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from carbon.localdomain (48.199.23.93.rev.sfr.net. [93.23.199.48]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q144sm14435162wme.0.2020.05.17.14.51.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 17 May 2020 14:51:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sun, 17 May 2020 11:52:18 -0700") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::336; envelope-from=orontee@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x336.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250673 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > There's a general problem that when package lacks small > feature , some users don't see this as a chance to write a > patch for . Instead, they write a new library - > to add this feature. > > Sometimes, of course, this is the correct choice. But I've seen > some very small packages just to basically patch this or that > annoyance in a package, or in core. For example: > > https://github.com/Fuco1/eshell-bookmark/issues/1 Stefan, may be you'll like to have support for bookmark.el in VC dir buffers too (see bug #39722)? ;-) > (FWIW, I think we should have a policy to reject such packages > on technical grounds (and ideally MELPA would do the same).) > > Now, this is an extreme example, but many more could be found. > Why are the authors of "helpful.el" not helping us mainline some > of their great innovation, for example? > > Has anyone else thought about this? Is it correct to say that > such a "package first" culture has developed? If yes, why has > it developed, and is there anything we could do about it? I guess good reasons to prefer small packages to fix annoyances is that: 1) The delay can be long between a patch is submitted and it is commented or merged (already two months for the mentionned one). OTOH packages are immediatly availables to all your computers 2) It's not clear to me whether trivial patches are welcome or not; My feeling is that they're wasting precious time of core Emacs developers -- Matthias