From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2021 11:11:05 +0000 Message-ID: <875yvh9anq.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> <01341bd6-b94b-4f94-1461-405e723142ad@yandex.ru> <8735qmjklm.fsf@localhost> <87ilzi86h7.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7509"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Daniel Fleischer , Richard Stallman , Elias =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=A5rtenson?= , Ihor Radchenko , emacs-devel , Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 03 13:41:55 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mM7Zz-0001m2-9W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 13:41:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53900 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mM7Zn-0006g9-Ql for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 07:41:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44528) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mM76H-00043Q-5v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 07:11:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:59393) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mM76E-0002zw-0s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 07:11:12 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE001240029 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:11:07 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1630667467; bh=ONPlh7ea+WCsKxNIloD+own6bnPFEf5t74mEkKkHhL0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=bHvmZaKGjllEomKlhx9PN75JQGEPYZEm1IkoZzl5fqnwYjqEQMLnwDmXt2Ocv9NMG tfpZJz4VL46hMPxlfx3mnfE9N6JnT2Gj0OxzLbkB8aUSlOHhf+PMa6z4L9F8/cvcBf cONfp9xuXC+1hHr9RBi+j1l+vBNGs+n+m6/Ya6NouQFsoqpBXQ7EXCViQYoH82UpnO 0Uc04nwTJzgWur3FzwzV7HFPOZ7jBSSmkNBgKzv4ceVSE+suTOU1ffitJsEBv4d4mR 5ehJYJGByPy6GhZRHbfNwoRZXVUq9e40WHmxo1GPJyq1uyH+AXg1tdhwVbPLmWwsil cFjSabVM2hoCg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4H1FTk2ByZz6tmQ; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:11:06 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Fri, 3 Sep 2021 13:26:39 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273765 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 03.09.2021 10:26, Philip Kaludercic wrote: >> Ihor Radchenko writes: >> >>> Can Emacs have "experimental" and "stable" dev branches with the former >>> being more open to "popular" changes? Then, people who wish a more >>> "popular" approach can use the experimental branch without disturbing >>> more conservative users. If features in experimental branch prove their >>> usefulness and quality, they can be moved to the stable branch. >> In some sense this exists with prepared configurations (or >> "distributions" as some call them). The changes they can make are not >> exactly the same as a "experimental" branch could, but they can do a lot >> of superficial and organisational changes. > > And as those distributions have been around for some time, we could > look at the changes in options they made and strongly consider making > the changes in defaults where those distributions agree, or largely > agree. > > Those kind of arguments, however, aren't generally accepted around > here either. I guess because it is easy to conflate the changes they make. These distributions and prepared configurations don't have to care about backwards compatibility, to they are a lot more flexible to change whatever they want. But there are different things: * Rebinding existing commands to ... - different functionalities (C-x to kill) - stronger equivalents (M-/ to hippie-expand) - slightly different but more intuitive commands (M-z to zap-up-to-char) * Binding commands to new keys (C-x p for project.el) * Providing more or different packages by-default (various major modes not available in ELPA, use-package, ...) * Enabling options by default ... - that might have been considered to intensive in the past (show-paren-mode, decreasing lazy-highlight-initial-delay, ...) - that change the default behaviour by trying to be intuitive (electric modes) * Changing the default UI to ... - match modern design trends (adding blank space, adding those little triangles to the mode line, ...) - improve readability (changing the default theme, using more variable-width faces in the UI) And I am sure there are more, but the point is that there are different discussions and motivations behind these changes. Emacs is currently in the weird position where it is already different but doesn't want to confuse new users even more by disabling some commands by default (upcase-region, narrow-to-region) or offer more power by default (searching using regular expressions by default). -- Philip Kaludercic