From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 09:10:50 +1000 Message-ID: <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39983"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.26; emacs 28.1.50 Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 10 01:25:00 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nzRWN-000AAG-Ke for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 01:24:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53602 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzRWL-0003yz-VC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 19:24:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47782) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzRVM-0003JU-HA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 19:23:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102b]:43950) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nzRVK-0001VM-OW; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 19:23:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102b.google.com with SMTP id l7-20020a17090aaa8700b001dd1a5b9965so675118pjq.2; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 16:23:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=WrIz3/4oNKm+l7uzbvaivP7ZgGCSlPdBknqsL+EH5EQ=; b=JMAUkwQqJjNS3uf1uYz9b5g6nbx4c1UYNISBT7IQTodlQ58Uf5NRu9UPHKZdVQlxlf 9J4EWCi7VE/warP0enkj/DHkuJFDTtn4szx+rbt7nQrCclSNifHtT8DKgmBKQLkRbVGy LwVc/ea5SkQ6gRMKTwzXgj3AvajPePxLHL+F+Nw/jd5r/4PxYor+PV0MmO+qwRu01llX m06EFAW6feVteW/qbjwunlDy++MWdxQ8+AB72GjzlP+NzEI5c1fUjS5BtDCDtze8SzLw FNmCPtQk1QeMgSPPk1J2cMhbNYLqquMAE40jY8wyuULvP0K2+icfIzAAQ7SX4Dza6Ev2 QVGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=WrIz3/4oNKm+l7uzbvaivP7ZgGCSlPdBknqsL+EH5EQ=; b=mkgBThsSQ/3rsgg6kS0sz8493aMYtLMGmb2Mutja0f8Ay+hXdZYAh+fOv/LnfiTT5E E7X65kEPOFDuD/LL+TGdVxWrRsEjvJgfYWtSCnJGAnHRfrqkQx1Dl8DbbQJ0KnuKLEeR Pnc3DoM8Azqs5vhs0LiFivYFRoukYUg8U44xPHXviDVFRwyZE0KGTV91UAno3yAGKhUV gAOWSx6pHvE9tZaTjT3HSDHCGZXpYMU6gq6pY/p5TmbNL9a1K6QrdxmpHCXFUs2alFRx RL5AE2udLNZmGaA5mYObXVzujiRPuxw8vF8TFhJFHyKUkaC4Plh1+9TmjuiIyc9Ca/uL xtVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532zTkA03wfC/GNN9sakSx4txK6fJCvrh0moJlY34MnA82OFbHGv PIfp/l08laQcoK2GxFwzssUIM9zV8M8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxYufxaby395G93X2+cvRavL2JU/LoOneQJ3AYaGD4wrW1v/xAyiurKsJnlVAhL9cGc4o7CHA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:33cd:b0:1e6:8a38:f0b9 with SMTP id lk13-20020a17090b33cd00b001e68a38f0b9mr5798214pjb.64.1654817031827; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 16:23:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from dingbat (2001-44b8-31f2-bb00-8484-28e7-2db9-83ae.static.ipv6.internode.on.net. [2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:8484:28e7:2db9:83ae]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r14-20020a63ec4e000000b003fb0354c43asm17968637pgj.32.2022.06.09.16.23.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 09 Jun 2022 16:23:51 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102b; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:290983 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > If we are going to redesign Org mode syntax, > can we please add room for extensibility > so that an extension of Org mode syntax > could have all the features of Texinfo? > > If the new syntax can express all the distinctions that Texinfo > can already express, that would make it possible to switch to it > for our documentation sources. > > This needs to include conversion into some variant of TeX syntax so > that we can generate high-quality printed manuals through TeX. Nobody has said that org mode syntax was getting redesigned. What I said was that we were working to clarify the existing syntax and remove ambiguities and provide a standard parser. Making org mode syntax equivalent to texinfo syntax seems like a mistake to me. The original idea was to have a light weight syntax which is easyh to learn, not create a clone of texinfo. Besides, I suspect it would be very difficult to maintain backwards compatibility. I"m also not convinced that org mode would be the right solution for Emacs documentation. That is a completely different conversation and I'm not convinced that org mode is a better answer wrt documentation than texinfo. While there are certainly some areas where texinfo is showing its age, it still works well for providing Emacs documentation within the editor. There may be some role for org mode to augment what is provided by tgexinfo, but again, that is a whole different conversation. Note also that the previous thread was about handling of existing org files within Emacs package ecosystem, not about replacing org documentation with org mode.