From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: feature/package-vc has been merged Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2022 07:45:37 +0000 Message-ID: <875yfk1uqm.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164484721900.31751.1453162457552427931@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <837d0814c9.fsf@gnu.org> <878rkooz1o.fsf@posteo.net> <831qqg1306.fsf@gnu.org> <874jvcowzm.fsf@posteo.net> <83y1soypvx.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1song5x.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8nsyof7.fsf@gnu.org> <87leoond7l.fsf@posteo.net> <87pmdxgptl.fsf@posteo.net> <87iljotycc.fsf@thaodan.de> <87k044fvx9.fsf@posteo.net> <87a650twv7.fsf@thaodan.de> <87wn84ednr.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1sks82p.fsf@thaodan.de> <87mt909g3o.fsf@posteo.net> <87leojswzm.fsf@thaodan.de> <875yfluy99.fsf@thaodan.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19525"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 12 08:46:45 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1otlDx-0004s6-AP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:46:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1otlD7-0007xn-9N; Sat, 12 Nov 2022 02:45:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1otlCx-0007q8-1e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Nov 2022 02:45:43 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1otlCv-0005fh-43 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Nov 2022 02:45:42 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A9A6240028 for ; Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:45:38 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1668239138; bh=HWYghelXYM9BsA+C8E2TVEiB42smAQj7vYU5veL0xPo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=a5xFCSXmeMyDe+rKw+wo7rvwjxYYaH0X5jxCw59DOTEbb8f1mMTxXVfzYe2MyZ94b cDXQdC7WLc7V+7QDU3vU8K8GpfVR80m5gBvJ7CGkEyb+E64nbLZ2u5SqVlko0ByiQE GvwbjRv0xAF9ePf87McV7wTSdIdsv3jQPHDO0n/sHHx0+PjVXOmVSdIoyx57cmQCEg ALO4rhi9dghbfsjZ/x3phvWZdCZv1qFs2xrttx56/0LYIjDcB55GGU222o3bElXOHo p9Q3UXBOAomBRxHXuLkMLVT5QEYIP9IKL/fpGYdaQf4v9CFm97hFh3yYsH7boGQiut yVLwsJ/o34RNg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4N8SKs2gpqz6tmh; Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:45:37 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <875yfluy99.fsf@thaodan.de> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar"'s message of "Fri, 11 Nov 2022 20:44:34 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299621 Archived-At: Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar writes: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] >> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] >> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >> >> Please do not encourage people to load packages from MELPA. MELPA >> does not cooperate with us. Not in legal matters, not in ethical >> matters, and not in technical matters of development. > > What justifies this kind of gaslighting against Melpa?=20 Wikipedia defines gaslighting as: Gaslighting is a colloquialism, loosely defined as manipulating someone so as to make them question their own reality [...] so I am not sure how this applies to this thread. > You might not > like to hear it but without Melpa Emacs wouldn't be were it is now.. This is a counterfactual discussion, because it cannot be said if MELPA was a necessary or contingent fact. I agree that MELPA provided an important service in collecting the number of packages that it did, but if NonGNU ELPA had been created over 10 years ago with the regular GNU ELPA, perhaps it would have been enough? That being said, if I had a single-use time machine I wouldn't waste it on finding out insignificant something like this. >> A given package that happens to be in MELPA may be perfectly fine in >> and of itself, or it may have problems of one kind of the other. >> >> If you come across a package in MELPA that has no particular problems, >> we can DTRT to put it in either GNU ELPA or NonGNU ELPA. > > It's perfectly fine that is on Melpa, not everyone likes the mailing > list based approach of Gnu. > Offer other options such as a Gitlab or Gitea instance instead of > antiquated Savanah (or make it more modern in other ways) > and people might move elsewhere. I am afraid you have some misunderstandings regarding GNU ELPA (and I suppose NonGNU ELPA as well). GNU ELPA packages can and often are developed on PR-based forges, where the state is synchronised into elpa.git/nongnu.git, where the packages are build and distributed. There is no need to use mailing lists -- except maybe to announce a package and to request it be added to an archive. But am I understating your correctly that that is really the point you are objecting to?