From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Updating the "ELPA Protocol" Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 16:59:45 +0000 Message-ID: <875yfen8ce.fsf@posteo.net> References: <164484721900.31751.1453162457552427931@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <83r0yfzz01.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkpjyx3p.fsf@posteo.net> <83bkpjynmj.fsf@gnu.org> <87iljqya44.fsf@posteo.net> <8335auzo9s.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgd2ws8z.fsf@posteo.net> <831qqezkxj.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1slgq3m.fsf@posteo.net> <87bkpgfsqv.fsf@posteo.net> <87educ9fei.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1sk7xtg.fsf_-_@posteo.net> <87h6z0rnuz.fsf@posteo.net> <87mt8r8i7j.fsf@posteo.net> <87r0y2ncdd.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27485"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 16 18:00:57 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ovLmS-0006wc-H7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Nov 2022 18:00:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ovLlc-0000yu-VJ; Wed, 16 Nov 2022 12:00:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ovLlU-0000yQ-2b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:59:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ovLlP-0006Qp-UM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:59:55 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3408240027 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2022 17:59:48 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1668617990; bh=ZPl/f4oGiB9DjHTaKuqApghpcpK4CsR1ELNMJDnq01g=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=Hyw5lPcLokQf4m+CTSVQDKXBqzepXzDpVyA3qTzeSax3dogJ0jy+If6oJr7UDBZpp s13BBWR/wU9EckuT5OGhJ/utImJc53BFyxkXDfSgxjqkKvnnfSm/vhbB34GsyQg/oy P8C0e17h644wuMox7bghyDv7cmGfXoQJNdQ75mymvYzQOmYtHtvDhC/OT1sRG1n8HY PD2J/wRfxh22LaTwWHBn9OwSBewreu+JWhxXlFGnDRBCedXN8IuWpUtppqxwbljH/r RphyBHS1bhQdayl0a4i/9ny90OHpAIHI9/BLl6o6gDOSsT+848ocXQ0Ph9GqY+47K8 t6BNvf6STi/8w== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NC8RP10Cfz6tlh; Wed, 16 Nov 2022 17:59:45 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:46:56 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299954 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >>> I think we'd need more details and concrete examples to judge how best >>> handle such renamings. The problem I see is that in Emacs, names are >>> very visible: the package name almost inevitably affect the ELisp >>> files's names, which themselves affect the functions and vars defined >>> therein. >>> >>> For that reason handling the renaming only in ELPA is rarely sufficient. >>> And also for that reason, renamings are rare. >> >> From what I know this happens from time to time on MELPA. The changes >> usually have to be backwards-compatible or the renames must be trivial >> (a change like "foo" -> "foo-mode" or vice versa). > > Interesting. It would be great to have a (more or less exhaustive) list > of renamings that took place in MELPA. This is not really exhaustive, but a good starting point: https://github.com/melpa/melpa/search?o=desc&q=rename&s=committer-date&type=commits There are 234 commits with the word "rename". Some are unrelated renames because MELPA has a single repository for admin scripts and specs, but most appear to be real package renames ("string-edit" -> "string-edit-at-point", "farmhouse-theme" -> "farmhouse-themes", "goldendict" -> "external-dict"). >> True, but I can imagine it causing confusion, when you find the actually >> selected package being empty and the real package listed as a "mere" >> dependency. > > I don't find it particularly confusing in Debian, because the new empty > package usually describes itself fairly clearly as some kind of > "transition package" where it say gives instructions on how to go about > it (that you can remove it, etc..). Hmm, I think I agree if we ensure that the transition package has a clear description that would indicate it is a replacement.