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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305732 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > [ I think everything has already been said in this discussion, so let me > try to answer two-in-one mails to minimize chatter. ] > > PK> experiences. I have a hunch that Jo=C3=A3o as the maintainer of Eglo= t is > PK> over-exposed to people who are interested in having the absolutely > PK> newest version so they can make use of the absolutely newest > PK> features, > > I don't know what that means. I am exposed to the users I am exposed > to, and there seem to be a lot of them. A lot of reports and > conversations over here and over at GitHub. I spend my time with them, > very often having to guess things. If I can at least minimize the time > wasted agreeing on what Eglot version is being used or how to get the > newest bugfix/feature, I do want that. My point is that I am guessing the average user you interact with is either having issues or is actively interested in Eglot. I suspect (and it is my experience) the average user, just like the average Emacs user, does not really think about the specific version they are running. > PK> I have in my init.el is a lot: > PK> eldoc-echo-area-use-multiline-p nil > > If you upgrade Eglot, you probably won't need this customization ;-) How come, is this not related to eldoc? > DG> some of this stuff will definitely get outdated. If we fixed > DG> package-upgrade, that could be easy enough, but 'M-x eglot-upgrade' > DG> can be a comparable alternative. > PK>> Just thinking about introducing a command that we right-now plan to > PK>> deprecate by the next release is not something I look forward to. > DG> It would probably be deprecated only several major versions later. > > Dmitry is right. > > An interesting direction would be to fix package-upgrade in Emacs 29 & > make package.el a self-updating :core package itself. But the former > has been ruled out and the latter is also looking murky. Are there > other more complicated ways to achieve this? Of course, and > list-packages was the first workaround listed by me when I opened > bug#62720. But the menu is fraught with its own problems (slow, > complicated and sometimes downright broken by some accounts). Broken? If that is the case, the issue should be addressed, but the only issue I know of is that the package status is occasionally incorrect, but that does not affect the packages itself. > eglot-update _not_ the prettiest option, but it's the best _possible_ > option which guarantees consistency across Emacs versions. I've > exhausted my attempts to steer this discussion in other directions. In my eyes it is not only not-pretty, but unnecessary (considering that list-packages does work and does so consistently over versions) and confuse the average user, when the command is eventually deprecated, but low-quality web forums recommend using it in their archives. > So eglot-update it is. I buy the consistency argument, I do, but there > are plenty of -version and -bug too in the Emacs tree > There is even tramp-recompile-elpa. None of this is deprecated. Which > just means maintainters need things to work foremost before wanting them > to be pretty. It should be deprecated though, and I don't think that these patterns should be encouraged or added. > Jo=C3=A3o