From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yoni Rabkin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Distribution statistics for ELPA and EMMS Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2023 10:02:16 -0400 Message-ID: <875y6mzj4n.fsf@rabkins.net> References: <87bkgfjzwa.fsf@rabkins.net> <87zg3zotzq.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10557"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 14 16:03:18 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qKJO7-0002Qu-Gq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2023 16:03:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKJNK-0004fo-0R; Fri, 14 Jul 2023 10:02:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKJNH-0004ez-Rs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2023 10:02:23 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay0014.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.14] helo=relay.hostedemail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKJNG-0001jq-0M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jul 2023 10:02:23 -0400 Original-Received: from omf04.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay06.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29A08B04D5 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2023 14:02:20 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: yoni@rabkins.net) by omf04.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 878D520030 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2023 14:02:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Ethics: Use GNU In-Reply-To: <87zg3zotzq.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Fri, 14 Jul 2023 07:03:05 +0000") X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout03 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 878D520030 X-Stat-Signature: fagjm4jy83se1t9geno8kfniaj9eoxc6 X-Session-Marker: 796F6E69407261626B696E732E6E6574 X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX19E8dYngEQ1NdjmyQBBdRmCiR1DrqkLXE4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rabkins.net; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=dkim1; bh=r1PGZqfGxlVkiOeTlyDyBKx95ho23T1villaTyKf9mI=; b=JoHitMrh6AZsrv9xJzRqpBV0CzS1aqFRGFw5CDPLdObPjvPKA9s0CG4oQYtqikiC7D4CmOb9jqfpx5O6pZuLhHa+Ju8QhgBYikSzPjsDiKB5+H04pJf/AIOFO9UXij9WyZnXhVGfyMBSbyu5jybJBOGwJbsjJQfEKvfI4WPriBg= X-HE-Tag: 1689343337-2563 X-HE-Meta: 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 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.40.44.14; envelope-from=yoni@rabkins.net; helo=relay.hostedemail.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307868 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: > Eduardo Ochs writes: > >> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 17:55, Yoni Rabkin wrote: >>> >>> I want to start the talk with the claim that Emms is a popular music and >>> video package for Emacs. However, I have absolutely no numbers or >>> statistics to back that claim. Is there a way to find out? Are any >>> statistics collected by ELPA? >>> >>> Is there a way to answer the question: how many times was Emms installed >>> in 2022? >> >> Hey, thanks for asking that! >> >> I'm the author of an Emacs package that is in ELPA and that I don't >> have any idea how many users it has - I mean, besides the ones that >> I've interacted with - and I was planning to start my talk about it >> in the next EmacsConf by saying that it has "at least 10 users"... =/ > > Then again, if you go by download counts like MELPA, you will severely > overestimate the number of users, since AFAIK they do not distinguish > between downloads and updates, nor do they know if someone just > installed a package and then immediately removed it. I don't think that's important since we are not selling copies of the software, nor trying to drive advertisement. Instead, what I had in mind is a way of gauging activity. I'm thinking simply of the number of installs and/or updates, even if that number is normalized to the most "active" package. A developer who wants insight could visit the ELPA page for their package once in a while, note the change in the numbers, and draw their own conclusions. I think that seeing your package being installed and/or updated would be a great way of encouraging people to continue developing. Developers, especially of niche packages, could otherwise feel like they are "vox clamantis in deserto"; shouting into a great empty wilderness. > There was some discussion about updating the protocol that package.el > uses, in which context thinking about some reliable yet privacy > preserving method of estimating the user count would be nice to have. I see no pressing reason to identify unique downloads as opposed to simply downloads/updates, so I don't think privacy will be a concern. Currently we have two developers who have voiced that they would like this feature in ELPA. Perhaps if others chime in then it should be considered. -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"