From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregor Zattler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Clojure mode Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 13:50:58 +0200 Message-ID: <875y4vxwf1.fsf@no.lan> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <4874df51-9652-f9fd-0576-9dd6a4cba31a@gutov.dev> <3d5ef276-ce6b-9ff0-0c60-1da6b887b365@gutov.dev> <1070e416-2a13-49e0-90d4-fbc526cd461c@app.fastmail.com> <83ttskia84.fsf@gnu.org> <97c96b72-ebba-4853-98d2-86e3ba8bbc05@app.fastmail.com> <83sf84i9ix.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpfhzdm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25781"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org, chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 31 13:52:34 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbgDx-0006TQ-KR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 13:52:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbgD8-0003rN-5Y; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 07:51:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbgD5-0003oL-OZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 07:51:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbgD2-00037Z-VA; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 07:51:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=s31663417; t=1693482692; x=1694087492; i=telegraph@gmx.net; bh=9AAU0tvZAVBaWfy2wU4LlA72X2xhruflyRd5EBL40uE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=YeMgHiwCZ4X0vfEgD0JvvyWgnTR8fKbmrECZnaMldxUULNG82z8Osk7IVvF7CMhbpIGJb2H 3S677yymW6T/Yb2tpOxThWpMFruIiGLOe9h4pP8uxKNrtNilt9DfZpwYvujKUCcmt4LNLAGg8 ozKGEyCDfb9a7TqK3ri8BwMK6k0W/onTPRwjY9uLsRGy+WYKuOVW4FH/D8IHEVbr7OvGvuM5A dyN/zjX+twGNKX8vfB44yeHYIi9fX+4GtaSCVJ3mjnqu9MdOYBRnKda7IDia/8PzlIH9ZQSx0 hGUPf3m6YLmdMkmc/lj95gM0HWxw6V2eDTjgJdXCAFsMxjMtAhOQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from localhost ([95.90.236.143]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MVeI8-1qCH2W2vdU-00RZFw; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 13:51:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: Mail-Followup-To: rms@gnu.org, chad , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:j2OmPxvWeykFare4j0p5U1eR/vOITQrj3PXN1dp9eEG279aT1Yr trvNrsTKWwjOLA1nRGRRISYf0sms7T4FBYpARrPbxPcEJ/iCZ6r0J+8EF80L7AUt+ApBcI6 +9jIhGaRIqpenEgtRTadf+TgsBMzmPXpskRRX+LpMyLrRYvHPIazPfCPd46XkexKhx/vU/N /E5DumdQnOPJB0HHRsHgA== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:yEJy5E+LMN0=;kaOzJlwWQ+xQnTZD1aCxDPDkaGV 8e9xPbqRJuwlNcF331CRAYCN+SBDd2jtNtArl6Dvix2wJ0AbVDMmZH7a1ME6viRF3Xh5YPxqC V20mISssXESCTKrUnPSXVU7+/hQmfsRXSQzeSl5bRmIrynoiYwin1cWEXTHvbnOCNivmyqQHO HbK8Kk28mnpEOTvWEvsWghXeh3fwdXkQAB9tc0BK2z3mirWdq+9XGlBXs3yeCS+bTW9u7fiaR io4o2WYqPv7u8bD+nXJU7+bjRV822fPWikNw8D/QjPAbQP+2D+QJUe7H0SewPXbPzwutEdPNt DpITWW/7GS3sWsfKu8kmp8beXQ0AHruUxl03My8dp8uCN7e9xkt0Zcnh/Rs646gSFoaxV0mN6 PxP9KqlvhqkIxnJxvot4pCXOD/ELFO909vRKDXqT8w9Iros1oPuF0CWPBzEUCovSBfuCKEigW F2JL+iQZezh8TyE1SQQDwa/iIIhorp4ZVaA0R40TFHIv1VzvuYt/T8IASaK512M2jmh2o2h0a aNml5wY7O/o8XxVdr9/F5cJcedzUHMArjy6zaFRoZAWzWICTizw5lANneEPkLLdCY731ZIvC1 R8in7yWx9dFIg/HD0O39k6E1jcapsjQCGZeDz1t1dNfxXh/nYojZ4N3igg9OTt4m7wCNnAGUQ Wai/3hElyf0W3HFSAFdnMtZYZ8iLGwPBm3yG+hEDTW84oxGtB3Jg/Dtz8HsS8F4QFIye1cCgr htv9tLL61deuN5lj+hZNLYin2KAIpkiWA2aoM89N0amBRAlkNZbiHU2tojZEPJASjkjuFqVr Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.21; envelope-from=telegraph@gmx.net; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309634 Archived-At: * Richard Stallman [2023-08-30; 22:07 -04]: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > What I had in mind was something akin to autoload that, rather than > > providing _any_ clojure mode (in this specific example), instead provides > > the user with a buffer conveying that Clojure support in emacs is > > available, but is not currently bundled directly, and offers the user a > > short description of each of the two packages clojure-mode and > > clojure-ts-mode, along with buttons to install and activate each package. > > That would be more convenient for people editing Clojure programs. > But it has a downside: it would tend to fuzz the distinction between > GNU Emacs and NonGNU ELPA. > > That distinction is important, and it is important for users > to know about it. > > This is why loading anything whatsoever from NonGNU ELPA has to be an > explicit request from the user. Nothing should ever enable it > implicitly. > > Perhaps we can find a way to modify this suggestion to avoid that > downside. The crucial thing is not to aim to make it smooth or > automatic, but on the contrary to impress on the user that this > is crossing a gulf. why is this crossing a gulf? The packages in NonGnu ELPA are selected by the Emacs developers, and according to https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/nongnu.git/plain/README.org, there "* Guidance for accepting packages", a package in NonGnu ELPA is GPL-3+ (for documentation and education other licenses are prescribed), does not refer users to any nonfree software or nonfree documentation, in general does not run code that it has fetched over the internet, delivers its full functionality and convenience on a completely free platform based on the GNU operating system, only provides features on non-free systems which are already provides on free ones, may communicate with a class of remote services only if this is for communication or to access published material, may not use remote services to do the user's own computational processing, may not advertise anything commercial with material in the NonGNU ELPA package or this repository with the exception of paid service for said package; the Emacs developers even may change/maintain it. So the only difference to Gnu ELPA is the copyright assignment. Why does that amount to crossing a gulf for the user?