From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 873e64911e7fc384ea6f5a066444efbb; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 14:07:01 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora=22's?= message of "Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:39:32 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.187.31; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312572 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > It's converting a plist into an alist. And I used it precisely > an example of non-universal code, that is nevertheless concise. > > No one asked you to "judge it". You're arguing in favor of it, and to repudiate such arguments the measure that is being used to compare it with other postulated alternatives must also be applied to these alternatives, correct? In view of the incidence of the word "conciseness" within both your follow-ups, that is the measure in question. I think the existence of a minimum of one person who does not quite follow the code at hand is enough to outweigh any advantages it might hold, when this is the alternative in question: (let ((list '(:a b :c d)) (other nil)) (while list (push (cons (car list) (cadr list)) other) (setq list (cddr list))) (nreverse other)) Using cl-lib for this kind of job, and expecting others to understand it, is like a philosopher upholding the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus as a universal cynosure for reasoning and exhorting laymen to hold their thought to it. Bizarrely enough, I have been subject to both these kinds of exhortations.