From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 19:49:05 +0100 Message-ID: <875y28gm72.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734xetjkk.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywhsrcf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywgx1z0.fsf@web.de> <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> <83cywgwg3z.fsf@gnu.org> <838r74wfdl.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttpsgwhl.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21014"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:FPgkmMJ1Uae+H0nfCAnfcJYQeuE= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 21:38:33 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ukT-0005DD-E4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 21:38:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1ujr-0001Wb-3s; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 15:37:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1t2i-0007M4-RB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:49:16 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1t2h-0002sp-3v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:49:16 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1t2e-0003MM-HB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 19:49:12 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 15:37:51 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312609 Archived-At: Drew Adams wrote: >> We have heard from some programmers and maintainers that >> they see the complexity increase as a problem. We have to >> believe them, they think like that. And not everyone else >> has to agree. >> >> But I have not heard a lot what should be done about it. >> Not generally, how to not have that tendency in the future. > > Michael suggested splitting `cl-lib.el'. I seconded that, as > did some others. That's a first step to tackling and taming > the beast. But it is also very easy for a programmer to use it the way it is, as soon as you type "cl-" you know you want to `require' cl-lib in that file. To me, I can't say I care if libraries are big or small. If they are big, probably it means they contain a lot of useful stuff so all the better. As you know, cl-lib is already split up in different files, it is just the require part that is always just cl-lib and to me that is practical for all the cl- stuff, what is the harm with it? -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal