From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Instead of pcase Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2023 19:49:20 +0800 Message-ID: <875y1viawv.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87fs15kkk1.fsf@yahoo.com> <874jhi3qx3.fsf@web.de> <21eda04f-b974-0c56-ce6c-4fc0810e4e13@gutov.dev> <87msv7j2o5.fsf@yahoo.com> <87edgjiwg4.fsf@yahoo.com> <1f88832b-194f-2f4b-a2a2-6ab511d383fc@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13581"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Jim Porter , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 21 12:50:45 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r5PHA-0003LS-O0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 12:50:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5PGA-0001p7-2h; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 06:49:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5PG6-0001lY-En for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 06:49:38 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic309-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.146]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5PG2-0003VO-9Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 06:49:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1700567372; bh=rPP5wl4KmomYRX4rqAGJaOxcBYzbyvyk/TFL7Hn4m5g=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=aGaXmioQ+792GaWTUtP5NWNdnhp8NZJS71GSIKWViNuG7JBb3OpuAefGhDNXFBDw0wNlQ3WDcTylJ4zxSrYSA9OhsLsxNDBtbkAsxSM18CAq01VEwzsOnEEHpgsNJTBMuWcDy+gOo9ap48Vvtq17C+YMin8J/sSzGpCN/LEbTVa66eDXP5Izko+ZS7i1k6AB8dGgXPxUDm3cTHQW4xoCWuTSff6DG5NwVGAdaZhnENWunWIy3rkiW2d/gUzRu+Yj/Qa/1RIH1Ckl7k8d7Bugl/OTcdfqBjQyFAYn9aDLxNIFb5AWLelNk355NQm+J3PxeoSPhxd6AV+H02/IM1icQA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1700567372; bh=3FTjAuK9bLXr9SOnD7kwDbBnIeWopJFjvj9HinDkUeX=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=CM8S9XY4fvc4KkWJ5QzZe80+4h4ITiQKi4kAxCIdnFpqICmLSJpwgufJ2G5wuPdvlKAKJNmDa0zjeZnV3yXS7c6ziFWB8SRNbU8AZ9Qbu7agGkG9l7u5+vmBX9fHa0mopCue+uInGkQDmwBtl0QhFb03WfM+KaF6E9y6naVI+vkrANjwgYp1OAL1qkV5qzzEAR6TNSqh3qQg8Edd8mVQ9FL6MSHGGdI2a6c4Hkqzg8ZoO72A4Kl32M26Btb3xpkFn+tNpjkifuoFWo0Dk2uTQyN3obJ6bdwr99COWx17ARW5Pgymv95jUr3jrwN5k4YzwUXWylvg4hwayQEbMO2qiQ== X-YMail-OSG: 4jqnOWcVM1kEfOq2cCvrOyD8JiAsjPq6jrYFX4hYKxc6b6z3VZNyfku46bvaW3r MnMRJArNMAKJoLCHHBJERYh5b_jOBJQnT4_WwmB_nxq.u0PA24XHHYrOJjJbX97K3rKNLOnMOD_9 GRY6Sez2S5EpkOXyJ_R288KlYa84X9kM7DwXrcWqewGS5hgKSXISTLO9YhgtSY7W94NzODHve1UC 0RI0wk2QcZK.waqTSqjK2SnIMC_ktvCZUi4PEZF270gZeldatATGkrbKSy0C2GH.1zkP8fMDeGSq UqL517sZJwFI2hVaKC4FBeocDB3L.ZBrn4DU1ZFG3o8rJciE2454ubkijJYgj01AyxwBKf.NQEBX pILwcansvhcWFQcreYhyj5dxm8oPuJ8MNORFL0kAAe2Ol_2qNrpHT7GmvcqUwm1AuMYg4tdebEzR OwQqrdrzsOZ1VNGijRk.E44SqnWg7GEoRQwoNC7NLl57X7fKA0iJiMgT6ACIPHZbqrEYXpoVzqc8 8OXLCm70UCU_yOu09YdYzW31sIfk_yb9z03R__GTFnO.ReA1xkZCn7rIhuldY8vJtmKFYZTXMHJ0 JDaY0F1jSB2esClzxPG3WwCeWM8qb6ROEOsy1S6JwA.sbiBOKbaSCcJrzGYQpre0rSHWqvUpHRfK FsqKhSDnkTDjjJVBQp7Nh75QXlzGSFCa3DkYzDBTkTXLPnpNBKxg7R06_NTR6.nRFUFmjay0JZEr DrFfYgizgIZkT6IAnbxRXiilU7jYSuDZNA6tz6PlYmTXQMfbsRoA1FTuep6QctqqFJ_rYlxMBa09 wkPFYdzG.ym.Ug1P421UfDsVHrDRrNYipqhMHtGRof X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 12ba14a7-5eb6-48fa-9acc-c8225e6fd54d Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:49:32 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-599557b48c-f6k72 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 0a055f044b911e971b6b8b558003e685; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:49:27 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <1f88832b-194f-2f4b-a2a2-6ab511d383fc@gutov.dev> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Tue, 21 Nov 2023 13:27:03 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.184.146; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic309-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313108 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > I never said that the cost doesn't exist. But one could ask whether it > is a useful cost, overall, one that helps reduce the complexity of the > code around it (one pays the cost when reading verbose code, > too). Which might depend on how much one would have to work to > understand to construct. > > You provided statistics about your coworkers who are all used to > working with low-level code, and then claimed that those should be > representative of the Emacs userbase as a whole. I countered that. And I continue to disagree, because you never did cite any evidence to the contrary. It is very difficult to disabuse someone of a conviction formed through observations of his surroundings without objective evidence contradicting them, all the more so when others online also concur. Besides, IMHO exclusively linguistic goals are never worth their while in Emacs Lisp. It is an extension language, designed to be useful and comprehensible to users without their setting themselves to its study.