From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Telemetry, opt-in, opt-out [was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove] Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 01:03:42 +0200 Message-ID: <875xtwtyk1.fsf@web.de> References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38788"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Madhu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 26 03:33:26 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sMHXJ-0009we-P0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 03:33:25 +0200 Original-Received: from [::1] (helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMG4o-0003Rh-8B; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 20:00:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMG4H-0002ph-TX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:59:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.12]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMG3U-0007uZ-EC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:59:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1719359846; x=1719964646; i=arne_bab@web.de; bh=G7wm52zoMQFfgvcdPWITf5EnaUkGHd4rxGBGit895qs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date: Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=nD60Dyn3CypF61VzUpbydjxmJdga/ra5mUkiOzeVpitixy5p3BuPMRSTvpON76lX pJa1O7Mz41AnOj2/nWcgTHNknyowDsagepUrnGFHNZ6VyPTnMpgio8yoy2LQOHio9 IlRNC5NN7uyClFvgsHmZWqXtYcJN5U/YoQMDbTSmTRjH4EeVg7uU1plYg3LjKWbbY JytHd6LBkf2NiRgPofYHYFtCrhK9PQqGAij9cdSIcRhylMw66qtBo8D5H3QHdohw0 2Tw8v1PmuDUcvHgrdN8iQaneNjVUTfqr7LoJUs9d7bwA6J4jV1Z9voAv9BFz6rmKz j628GMd2/ptrGFvWMQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from fluss ([84.165.21.10]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MSIJ0-1rtbRY1oF6-00I557; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 01:03:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Madhu's message of "Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:58:07 +0530") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:usD4/pqLvZFEdAarLdC8iHenM2pbzE6KhbFKKBwAhu7BXnsmpXt EQ18QS3FGPes+DV9wl7n1TTqAK7wyVolYrHt1MYGSD2d/ADfbLZjTS4BUulU/HV6dn5i6qv qN0yX/C7SC0oNGBplhvioF6ZABkAw1b+6fJm+QrOO9CQ6C66xWhsCh7Q3BDkw8/ufyyWQFC xZ7jCKmwxbhbtYc9ayNfw== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:OJNSehTJijA=;7MSdiWNtMYe0p+nAFhOOG7E8gkR fOhRISR20M/xYwcBnTx7/O8/Avx/SV3U2kPjkrVDNMf+s1S+wWiX/smIpcNQzVwOWEVjeTAyT sI+245nNmOVmQg5Jexk9hCnerKT3Ne/gF9a5YYGVJ3ZB+i4+RKsFsibdfQgHa41iHaXezCqcl 8Sz1kXtwnnh57Kn+99A/0Wu9g8av/0xGVRUyuB8LqNVRff4WCDukSpqwHvp2K4VDGoA/1TuEV me+BiJJSwFTdll4bgC7JXAXTZyin22xHx9L3pAB/sehl9BRHZzV03cYFzkbARxw+j64iVNP0V JbrV7pTM/+tJ7Of1To4K9dSSBFwHftNuI+pdT8QRI0Rm/KLk2zFSKknfzl1JhBfTVaGK88vMo W8vjtI1Jz3ENzOypLZ0Yr5nNC7U36yOfFq2y7sDcS3JcE1Y2Kq2qiL/4hvZaZYvgY1CjAjNYu 5MSHSq7vBrws29pqSjizZwiKoZRaNYpUSoO3UmF8k4wn/y4Lq4W6D6D5ZieQvMY3919BWpP3X o0/0MKGn7n3pucm+ytn1VPNSEiI+NwyWcTrqkiC2k539vX1PySgsFCZ1X49Qq//vbD0WBnpuB G2LEFTA73Y+NgUZcBafNFgcdnMHVM0E70QzqqjzojRVyDocrxxIqLLGLcDVOrk3bMUIAGv8Vm 10XZTC5ThpBcFGNIjH/Z/1qRfta1OYkG5gLKb2mY5hAo8hWW9splVFQEvBszLUlcnyAlnhAqs bYvqWIcik0hwhyRdtx8CFauy41qasTZJMkoiKtyWpt3BssommZLnmOTJ3P00c1RtjV4qexR0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.12; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320645 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Madhu writes: > * Drew Adams : > Wrote on Sun, 23 Jun 2024 21:12:34 +0000: >>> >> Opt-out collection of anonymous metrics has been an industry standard >>> >> for many years now. >>> > Whatever "industry standard" means. Industry standard is >>> > surveillance capitalism these days. Not something to strive >>> > for, not in free software's context, I think. >>> Yup, I'd be happy to see some kind of statistics-gathering system >>> included in Emacs if it can help us decide how to evolve the projects >>> and its default settings, but it definitely needs to be opt-in: Emacs >>> should never contact a host without the user "explicitly" requesting it >>> (there's some wiggle room about what "explicitly" can mean, admittedly, >>> but in terms of sending telemetry it's pretty clear to me that it needs >>> to be opt-in). >> >> It's also possible to just ask users - poll them, >> as RMS often suggests. > > But with telemetry there is data which can be passed-off as non-biased > and international investors can control the development of emacs based > on the numbers (backed by solid evidence) That is a strong argument against telemetry. And a beautiful take-down of the industry standard on surveillance. I guess that=E2=80=99s how you intended it :-) Best wishes, Arne --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmZ7TM8QHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD62LoD/9brPnr/1aLjRLoDfpXhDpF00XE8UN49XxY WM5btI/9YLXu1ykAD283ALUYHRYJIxuPygl5mRoT3jcA2Kww3rLZxr5Z9BOVCsWa IFs8RSu8EUUPYXtpzgUAOq4/zqTKWEG7XqC9Tzgl5VIDFAJSMfy+XWvCH1SKmc5a ZzEHbikMlCAjeL2X7oQcIT+wQJsyce8+LJ7AKorFPeh3zoNSz9epMtXD4YzVNMuW thUrLRwALB4007KSNGTxvshg1y3XUNGyRr7KfssyG8tQe9efpsvUHFnkQ6QFCcVk QYIlOgeS6JjO/cG1yC7hZghkonM+iXLI+WJIEvVhdGvOz7sYuDRwrxnkwotPR5lD fK+rBc1xfsil2HyjM9UJUj139fy7Bl+jMDIIQ6aGa7uB7XqDN1nVDOSYF0X59EUM cmzbuvvvKbFxV9c9qO3Y43ZxyQhHRNrQoK4ShiMcaVQehLK1+IPp4lV7ZJOPLKoA WurZjKJcBkOzOofZxJyqYmr4DoneTCL/xq1Jm9R1oqKDvXNepvrSpxRww8QDqPuy sYI8H8K5538r9hK/Tz6z4ndYu0kucghMJxfo+iOS85V97EV7wmxHhMka997nbK9P uhqFdj3qCFWSlGs2Hg4hyKwAS9EXcdlUvOT+/8+FZeCf6UCmA/J7ml2rteWEZYhx YE/C00VPtojEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmZ7TM8QHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSHk1A/4xyXh2fB/CDDWM4/IS0W4EwLry DRqJLE3+R1PveuEkdGb+3ovOrEdYl/PBPVbd6ZL0u2T5WZkbVX0ASTUhDVypj7tS BkazURtJAZHFMnNHWNIj4TAqEaD7gGUus7kBswoOlN8z6gJgVJ5Kam72uNZ0Rxqu 9QIW+MYBiMGnD9ezfA== =B0jr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--